THE MAN CHRIST JESUS

[Aner]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
1. Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

2. Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

1. No.

Matthew 1:20-21 New King James Version (NKJV)

20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Rephrase the second question. I do not understand what you are asking.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

you will get on famously with keypurr, JW's and others that don't believe Christ is God. it's ok, you won't be the last, we simply tell you the truth and after you refuse it, we write you off as another poor lost soul that can't grasp the mystery of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9 KJV -


Colossians 2:8-9 KJV and 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

 

[aikido7]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

Jesus was the man, and Christ was the Jesus of theology and the church.

His humanity was a fact; his exalted titles are faith statements.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

He was like you and I, but He was more, clearly, or His death would not reconcile anyone to God...much less the whole world. No man was found worthy to even open the book, much less forgive sins. Rev. 5:3-5

Ezekiel 14:13
Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

Ezek. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

Ezek. 14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:

Ezek. 14:16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.​

 

[keypurr]

you will get on famously with keypurr, JW's and others that don't believe Christ is God. it's ok, you won't be the last, we simply tell you the truth and after you refuse it, we write you off as another poor lost soul that can't grasp the mystery of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9 KJV -


Colossians 2:8-9 KJV and 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

Aner understands what the scriptures are saying without assuming any thing more. Most folks just add their thoughts to the verses to make them say what they want them to say. I blame the Greek to English translation as the cause of most of the confusion.

Most do not wish to see truth if it conflicts with tradition.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Jesus specifically tells us that He is "a man who has told us the truth that He heard from God" (Jn8:40).

While I hear many people talk about Jesus as being "fully man" or "fully human", they rarely speak the way Jesus and Paul spoke - and simply say, Jesus is a man.

To understand the man Christ Jesus (1Tim2:5), I have recently provided the following two questions. To date, no one has been able to answer what should be very simple questions to confirm that Jesus is a man "made in all points like His brethren"(Heb2:17).

The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

made in all points like His brethren but without sin. YOU were not conceived of the Holy Ghost.

 

[keypurr]

I see Jesus as a man created for the purpose of holding the true spirit son of God in him. A body was needed to hold this spirit, a body was needed to be the Lamb for the sacrifice. Jesus became the Full Son of God when he was anointed with the express image of God. How great is the Father who planned all this before he formed the Universe.

 

[aikido7]

I see Jesus as a man created for the purpose of holding the true spirit son of God in him. A body was needed to hold this spirit, a body was needed to be the Lamb for the sacrifice. Jesus became the Full Son of God when he was anointed with the express image of God. How great is the Father who planned all this before he formed the Universe.

Amen, brother!

 

[OCTOBER23]

NOT THIS AGAIN.

FULLY GOD , FULLY MAN

I AM FULLY JEWISH AND FULLY CANADIAN AND FULLY CHRISTIAN

AND FULLY MALE AND FULLY VERY FUNNY :wave:

 

[freelight]

Jesus the MAN............

Jesus the MAN............

I see Jesus as a man created for the purpose of holding the true spirit son of God in him. A body was needed to hold this spirit, a body was needed to be the Lamb for the sacrifice. Jesus became the Full Son of God when he was anointed with the express image of God. How great is the Father who planned all this before he formed the Universe.

And notice how seeing 'Jesus Christ' this way does no harm to the import or significance of his mission to earth, nor his essential teachings about the kingdom of God, and its revelation that we are all children of God, 'God' being our Father.

All else is religious spin doctoring more or less, some concepts helpful, some not so

 

[keypurr]

And notice how seeing 'Jesus Christ' this way does no harm to the import or significance of his mission to earth, nor his essential teachings about the kingdom of God, and its revelation that we are all children of God, 'God' being our Father.

All else is religious spin doctoring more or less, some concepts helpful, some not so

Many see things that are not there. It is easy to inject tradition into what is written to fit what you have been told to believe. As a child, I fully believed in Santa, we sang song about him and read books about him, we saw him in the stores. But one day I realized that Santa was not real. It was hard to believe that so many people deceived me. But I grew up and saw why it was done.

 

[daqq]

made in all points like His brethren but without sin. YOU were not conceived of the Holy Ghost.

When Messiah was formed in me it was by the Holy Spirit, (and the Seed is the Word).

 

[freelight]

Who cares?

Who cares?

Many see things that are not there. It is easy to inject tradition into what is written to fit what you have been told to believe. As a child, I fully believed in Santa, we sang song about him and read books about him, we saw him in the stores. But one day I realized that Santa was not real. It was hard to believe that so many people deceived me. But I grew up and saw why it was done.

Sure keypurr, but as I've repeatedly shared about the whole Unitarian/Trinitarian debate,....its mere 'cosmetics', an issue of 'nuance' beyond anything substantial, if we just consider the universal message and meaning of 'Jesus' and his ministry as 'Christ' (the Messiah), stripping down his main message about the 'kingdom of God', and our relationship to 'God' and 'others' within those kingdom parameters. All else is religious spin.

Some 'spin' contributes to the over-all vision and meaning of Jesus, some not so much. Granted, early Christianity (within the first few centuries) was rather liberal/diverse as far as Christology was concerned, more specified in certain faith-communities, but the over-all context was 'complex' and 'varied',...as some viewed Jesus more in his 'humanity' as servant/anointed messenger of 'God', while others emphasized more of his 'divinity' and various concepts of his pre-existence as the 'logos', etc....then later Trinitarian formulations centuries later as 'God the Son' within a Trinity, and so on.

Who cares? What does it matter? You have various points of view, Christological concepts, doctrinal preferences and formats to choose from, and one will naturally gravitate towards that which resonates with his own conscience, intellectual/philosophical disposition,...and these points of view are subject to change. - they're pretty 'conditional'.....all 'relative' more or less.

 

[Aner]

you will get on famously with keypurr, JW's and others that don't believe Christ is God. it's ok, you won't be the last, we simply tell you the truth and after you refuse it, we write you off as another poor lost soul that can't grasp the mystery of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9 KJV -


Colossians 2:8-9 KJV and 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

How about actually answering the questions (as opposed to aggression)? Are you not called to give an answer to the hope that lies within you? Would you not answer a seeker?

The real issue Patrick - as you and I both know - is that your answer will expose your denial of the man Christ Jesus. Now that you are intentional in your denial - you are rejecting Lord and Master who bought you.

Tell you what - why not have an adult conversation where we focus on the issues. You provide your answer to this basic question and substantiate it. I will follow up by working together with you on correctly exegeting Col2:9 (your current exegesis is incorrect and based solely on assumptoins - not on straight, clear, repeated text. As an example - no one is absolutely positive what theotetos actually means in this context. The reason I know that is that if you read any commentary that provides reference to other commentaries - you will find a divergence of perspective (as there is on so many issues).

 

[Aner]

Jesus was the man, and Christ was the Jesus of theology and the church.

His humanity was a fact; his exalted titles are faith statements.

Aikido - Is there any way to reduce your response to answering the questions in the OP?

 

[Aner]

1. No.

Matthew 1:20-21 New King James Version (NKJV)

20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Rephrase the second question. I do not understand what you are asking.

BR - Let's do them one at time then.

My first question -
The Questions -
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

I believe you believe that Jesus is fully human - yes? Why would you say He is not "fully human" here?

What is most fundamental to being a man is being a human person - that is the fundamental framework of who each of us is. Here you deny that in this regard Jesus was like us. How does that square with the repeated statements that Jesus is a man exactly like us including His own assertion? You have me completely baffled....

 

[Aner]

He was like you and I, but He was more, clearly, or His death would not reconcile anyone to God...much less the whole world. No man was found worthy to even open the book, much less forgive sins. Rev. 5:3-5

Ezekiel 14:13
Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

Ezek. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

Ezek. 14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:

Ezek. 14:16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.​

GD - Is it possible to specifically answer the two questions in the OP?

 

[Aner]

NOT THIS AGAIN.

FULLY GOD , FULLY MAN

I AM FULLY JEWISH AND FULLY CANADIAN AND FULLY CHRISTIAN

AND FULLY MALE AND FULLY VERY FUNNY :wave:

Funny Fellow

Is there any way you can answer the two questions in the OP?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

He was like you and I, but He was more, clearly, or His death would not reconcile anyone to God...much less the whole world. No man was found worthy to even open the book, much less forgive sins. Rev. 5:3-5

Well they did find such a man--

Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

LA