The Logos-Word

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So you affirm a creed of man while denying the very Testimony of Yeshua himself from the Gospel of John. Duly noted. But why then should anyone believe anything else you try to steal from the Gospel of John for your own purposes and use it to promote your creeds of man? You have disqualified yourself and your creeds of men because clearly your creed does not comply with the Testimony of Messiah.

Jesus is the I AM.

Before Abraham was, I Am (John 8:58)
I Am He. (John 18:5)
I Am the bread of life (John 6:35)
I Am the light of the world (John 8:12)
I Am the gate (John10:7, 9)
I Am the good shepherd {John 10:11, 14)
I Am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25)
I Am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)
I Am the true vine (John 15:1, 5)

Is the point clear?
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Scripture twister. You have no idea what you're saying. I can forgive you but God won't.

'God' is actually more 'forgiving' than you might realize :) - also, 'God' is something more than our limited concepts and images of him, since those concepts, images, figures of Him are NOT Him. The infinite is always beyond the finite, do consider that :)

As per my discourse above about the 'logos', it is essentially and universally significant. I'd give it some meditation. We must always weigh our translation and interpretation of anything with the spirit of truth and wisdom, and be OPEN to have our insights changed or modified as needed.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
'God' is actually more 'forgiving' than you might realize :) - also, 'God' is something more than our limited concepts and images of him, since those concepts, images, figures of Him are NOT Him. The infinite is always beyond the finite, do consider that :)

As per my discourse above about the 'logos', it is essentially and universally significant. I'd give it some meditation. We must always weigh our translation and interpretation of anything with the spirit of truth and wisdom, and be OPEN to have our insights changed or modified as needed.

Not when it comes to His Son my friend.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Your always going to be in the dark RD for your mind was shut before to learned the truth.

I posted for you in the translation you think you know. Tell me in your own words why Christ is called a creature in Col 1:15 and show me ANY IMAGE that is not created.

Get new batteries for your flashlight RD.
You really are brain dead.

The image of GOD is NOT created.

You're stuck in your humanist interpretation of language.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
You really are brain dead.

The image of GOD is NOT created.

You're stuck in your humanist interpretation of language.
Are you saying that you can show me an image that is not created?

Are you saying the scriptures are in error in Col 1:15 where the son is called a creature?

Tell me why you think the words in scripture are wrong.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

Right Divider

Body part
Are you saying that you can show me an image that is not created?
Yes, the image of God. Christ is NOT a photo-copy. Nowhere in scripture will you find God's Word speak of a duplicate "God".

Are you saying the scriptures are in error in Col 1:15 where the son is called a creature?
You've been told many times, old heretic, that its talking about PREEMINENCE there. Christ was not BORN, Jesus is God taking on human flesh.

Tell me why you think the words in scripture are wrong.
It's not, you are.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Yes, the image of God. Christ is NOT a photo-copy. Nowhere in scripture will you find God's Word speak of a duplicate "God".


You've been told many times, old heretic, that its talking about PREEMINENCE there. Christ was not BORN, Jesus is God taking on human flesh.


It's not, you are.
The express image is an EXACT COPY OF GOD in all ways. You have been programmed to only believe what you have been brow beaten to accept. A copy of anything is not the real original, that includes Christ. You are misled RD.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

daqq

Well-known member
Excellent points, - on the Jewish tradition of the 'word', the
MEMRA (= "Ma'amar" or "Dibbur,"): - correlates to the 'logos' from a greek philosophical perspective in Johns's writing, embodied in the Messiah-Son, which also corresponds with the divine wisdom (Chokmah/Sophia) that existed with God from the beginning, the 'logos' being that creative intelligence at the heart of all, guiding, directing, orchestrating creation. As I noted earlier, this 'word' also has 'breath' and 'voice'. I recall some of the ancient Kaballistic texts speaking on this, which are most wonderful, I believe the Sefer Yetzirah specifically :) - the 'logos' carries the key-notes of creation, whereby all is brought in to concert with the will of Spirit.

Considering this creative word concept within all the various religious traditions (Its Universal!),...the 'memra/dibbur', 'logos', 'word', also correlates with the Hindu 'om' (A-U-M) and a similar Sanskrit word 'shabda/shabad'...expanded more in the Sikh tradition, which also correlates to the holy 'naam' (name) of Deity. In some respects the logos also bears similarities to the 'tao' of Taoism as well. So, we have the universal sound-vibration or current spoken out of from Brahman (Supreme Spirit/Creator), which orchestrates and brings into form, the material creation, the cosmos and its dispensations :) - this is one of the most awesome subjects actually, since in the totality of existence, there is but 'God' and His 'Word',...'God' and the 'creation' of 'God'. All that is....is Spirit-consciousness....and its creative expressions in space/time,...energy, form and substance. There is only the Matrix and its offsprings. - if you look at my signature, there is the Sanskrit "om" (a-u-m) symbol (which has much detailed symbolism with its parts as well),....since my eastern religious studies have impressed upon me various universal and cosmic truths, which further charts my explorations in the ancient wisdom (theosophical schools) and modern New Thought traditions. The contemplation and study of the 'creative word' is both fundamental and universal.

All movement, direction and destiny of creation, is according to the memra, logos, word, om, shabda, tao of the SOUL at the heart of and genesis of Creation, it is all born out from SOURCE. On the level of actual and potential reality, the absolute and the relative,....there is Only CREATOR(creative spirit, infinite intelligence)....and CREATION(expression of potentials inherent in spirit-energy-consciousness). - the logos is the relating principle.

View attachment 25349

* the above is a star of David overlaid ontop of the sacred geometry design of the Flower of life and Metatron's cube, all having significance in the creative process.

I have not studied the other religions but, yes, on the subject matter that I am familiar with, I do concur. Also Paul even tells us that Messiah is the Wisdom of Elohim, (and he also tells us that there is neither male nor female in Messiah because the Word contains both).

1 Corinthians 1:24
24 But to those who are called, both Yhudim and Greeks, Messiah is the Power of Elohim, (θεου δυναμιν), and the Wisdom of Elohim (θεου σοφιαν).


See also Eph 1:17, (πνευμα σοφιας), Eph 3:10, (σοφια του θεου), in their contexts.

And also:

James 3:13-17
13 Who is wise and endued with knowledge among you? Let the same show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where there is envying and strife there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.


The Spirit of Wisdom therefore descends from the heavens like a Yonah-Dove.

πνευμα σοφια (1 Corinthians 1:24, Ephesians 1:17)
πνευμα θεου (Genesis 1:2 LXX, Matthew 3:16, Romans 8:9)
πνευμα χριστου (Romans 8:9)

πνευμα θεου = πνευμα σοφια = πνευμα χριστου
 

Right Divider

Body part
The express image is an EXACT COPY OF GOD in all ways.
Nonsense. Throughout scripture God claims to be THE ONE AND ONLY.

Nowhere is it said in the Word of God that God "copied" Himself. That's your man-made invented garbage.

You have been programmed to only believe what you have been brow beaten to accept. A copy of anything is not the real original, that includes Christ. You are misled RD.
No, keypurr.... you believed a confused cultist and now you're out of God's Word with your silly made-up fairy story.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Jesus is the I AM.

Before Abraham was, I Am (John 8:58)
I Am He. (John 18:5)
I Am the bread of life (John 6:35)
I Am the light of the world (John 8:12)
I Am the gate (John10:7, 9)
I Am the good shepherd {John 10:11, 14)
I Am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25)
I Am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)
I Am the true vine (John 15:1, 5)

Is the point clear?

Not to you it isn't clear but I have already expounded all of those "I AM" statements in another thread. Why do you persist here when you openly deny the Testimony of Yeshua as clearly shown on the previous page? How is it that you imagine your view of the "I AM" statements can be correct when you deny his own Testimony from other places in the same Gospel account? You have thoroughly deceived yourself and have received the due penalty, strong delusion, for rejecting the Testimony of Yeshua in favor of the creeds and doctrines of men. What more can be said? You reject the Testimony of Messiah and therefore reject Messiah.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Nonsense. Throughout scripture God claims to be THE ONE AND ONLY.

Nowhere is it said in the Word of God that God "copied" Himself. That's your man-made invented garbage.


No, keypurr.... you believed a confused cultist and now you're out of God's Word with your silly made-up fairy story.
I discarded all the cultist in my thoughts years ago RD.

Why are you also unable to tell me of any image that is not a creation.

Why is the Son called a creature in Col 1:15?

Your man embarrassed that you have no answer for the verses in question. Keep your eyes closed if you wish.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Not to you it isn't clear but I have already expounded all of those "I AM" statements in another thread. Why do you persist here when you openly deny the Testimony of Yeshua as clearly shown on the previous page? How is it that you imagine your view of the "I AM" statements can be correct when you deny his own Testimony from other places in the same Gospel account? You have thoroughly deceived yourself and have received the due penalty, strong delusion, for rejecting the Testimony of Yeshua in favor of the creeds and doctrines of men. What more can be said? You reject the Testimony of Messiah and therefore reject Messiah.

Jesus is God Almighty. Believe it or perish
 

daqq

Well-known member
You really are brain dead.

The image of GOD is NOT created.

You're stuck in your humanist interpretation of language.

Dear Right Divider, seeing that your name is "Right Divider" how is it that you are not even capable of "rightly dividing" between SPIRIT and FLESH? The flesh profits you nothing: the words that Yeshua speaks are SPIRIT. If therefore his words are SPIRIT then who is that Spirit? The last time you were here in this thread you refused to affirm the Testimony of Yeshua in the two opening posts of this thread. At this point, unless you change your heart and mind, and confess the Testimony of Yeshua, there is no choice but to consider you also a denier of Messiah because you openly deny his all-important holy Testimony. Please confirm or deny the Testimony of Yeshua posted in the two opening posts of this thread. Here it is again condensed for your viewing pleasure. The clean pure systematic logic is plain for all to see. Do you affirm or deny this little mini-"creed" from the Gospel of John?

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua:

The words of Yeshua are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you,
they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.


The man Yeshua emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The man Yeshua testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The man Yeshua is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that Yeshua spoke is the Judge.
The man Yeshua therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of Yeshua is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).
("The Logos-Word" Post#2)

emo-sunny.gif
 

daqq

Well-known member
Jesus is God Almighty. Believe it or perish

:rotfl:

Lol, too funny, a dead man who denies Messiah, telling me that I will perish if I do not agree with him and his church mother and fathers, and their creeds and decrees, which violate and abandon the Holy Scripture and the Word whom I love.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top