The Logos-Word

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daqq

Well-known member
If one is going to capitalize "Logos" or "Word" in John 1:1, (even if only in your mind as you read the text), then the same must be willing to treat "Logos" or "Word" in like manner anywhere else in the same Gospel account where "Logos" or "Word" appears critical to the understanding of the overall context of the same Gospel record. Otherwise one is simply engaging in what is called special pleading. It is unacceptable to say that a particular word should receive most favored word status insomuch that it might be capitalized in some critical places while ignoring any obverse critical implications of the very same word in other critical passages where it might contradict or refute the overall doctrine one is attempting to grasp or formulate from within that same Gospel record. In plain words, if you are going to treat a word one way, in one context, then you must be willing and able to treat that same word in the same way everywhere else if necessary, or if called upon to do so, otherwise you are only fooling yourself by making a word mean something special where you really need it to carry your special meaning, (hence, special pleading), while ignoring the complications you have created everywhere else where that same word is found.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Logos-Word, and the Logos-Word was with the Elohim, and the Logos-Word was Elohim:

What will follow below has been posted seven or eight times now herein throughout the "Religion" forum board, in various places and contexts, so I thought it might be useful to some, whosoever they may be, if this were made into a thread of its own. Swordsmen, Touché! :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
daqq said:
If one is going to capitalize "Logos" or "Word" in John 1:1, (even if only in your mind as you read the text), then the same must be willing to treat "Logos" or "Word" in like manner anywhere else in the same Gospel account where "Logos" or "Word" appears critical to the understanding of the overall context of the same Gospel record. Otherwise one is simply engaging in what is called special pleading. It is unacceptable to say that a particular word should receive most favored word status insomuch that it might be capitalized in some critical places while ignoring any obverse critical implications of the very same word in other critical passages where it might contradict or refute the overall doctrine one is attempting to grasp or formulate from within that same Gospel record. In plain words, if you are going to treat a word one way, in one context, then you must be willing and able to treat that same word in the same way everywhere else if necessary, or if called upon to do so, otherwise you are only fooling yourself by making a word mean something special where you really need it to carry your special meaning, (hence, special pleading), while ignoring the complications you have created everywhere else where that same word is found.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Logos-Word, and the Logos-Word was with the Elohim, and the Logos-Word was Elohim:

What will follow below has been posted seven or eight times now herein throughout the "Religion" forum board, in various places and contexts, so I thought it might be useful to some, whosoever they may be, if this were made into a thread of its own. Swordsmen, Touché! :)
Click to expand...

Here again is the supreme and very simple systematic logic taken straight from the Testimony of Yeshua himself, in the very same Gospel account which many use to supposedly prove that the man Yeshua or Jesus is "God Almighty born into human flesh", or that, "Jesus is YHWH", as many here in this board have openly claimed. But when we take certain key statements of the Master himself, as follows, the error of such claims is clearly exposed by the Testimony of Yeshua himself. We who actually believe the Testimony of Yeshua know that he says the heavens and the earth shall pass away, but his words will not pass away, (Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33), and therefore none of these words which follow are ever going to change or pass away, never ever, but remain in effect for all time concerning anyone who actually believes the Testimony of Yeshua to be true. The first key statement is that Yeshua says his words are SPIRIT and if you follow the very simple logic laid out in sequence from the statements below there is absolutely no denying the outcome of these clear emphatic statements unless one simply is not a follower and believer of these words and statements of the Master Teacher himself.

The words of Yeshua are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up [to] where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua does not testify of himself and therefore cannot claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.

The man Yeshua emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the Logos-Word that I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Son of Elohim and the Son of Man is the Logos-Word who descended from the heavens in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form like a dove, (Luke 3:22), and abode-remained upon-within the man Yeshua throughout his ministry and Golgotha. No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a), because spoken word cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh of man. The new-renewed Covenant "new Spirit" of Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, 36:26, and John 7:39, is thus the most holy Word of the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua. Anyone claiming to have the Holy Spirit who does not have and hold the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua in uprightness and truth is therefore deceiving himself or herself.

If one is simply willing to follow the very simple and straightforward systematic flow of the logic in the above statements then Yeshua himself clearly defines who the Logos concerns: the Logos is not the man Yeshua himself but, rather, the Logos is the Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks. This is true because, as has now been said so many times, Testimony is SPIRIT, and that is why the Son of Elohim is also called the Son of man: for he was both written by men and prophets, and spoken through men and prophets, and therefore he is the Son of man, for Testimony is Spirit, just as Yeshua himself says that the words which he speaks are Spirit and they are Life. But the Son was in the beginning with the Father; and yet the Father gave His Son to mankind, (the Light and the Testimony of the Truth).

The Father judges no one. The man Yeshua judges no one. The Testimony of Yeshua will not pass away. The Logos is the Seeker and the Judge, the Son of Elohim, and the Son of man, and because he is the Word of the Truth which is spoken by men of faithfulness and truth; he is considered a little lower than the messengers: for the messengers speak him because he being the Logos-Word dwells in the messengers.

Once again the Testimony of Yeshua:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The man Yeshua testifies concerning the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The man Yeshua is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that Yeshua spoke is the Judge.
The man Yeshua therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Moreover, the most recent time the above was posted, a certain one said:

The Son of Elohim and Son of Man is the Logos-Word who descended from the heavens in somatiko-corporeal-bodily form like a dove, Luke 3:22, and abode-remained upon-within the man Yeshua throughout his ministry and Golgotha.
Click to expand...
So the Man Jesus has the Son of Elohim upon Him and within Him!
Who can take you seriously?
Click to expand...

To which my response was and is this:

Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto him the scroll of haNavi Yeshayahu; and when he had opened the scroll, he found the place where it was written:
18 Ruach Adonai YHWH is upon me, [Isaiah 61:1a] for He has mashach-anointed me to preach the good news to the poor: He has sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised:
19 To preach the acceptable year of YHWH [Isaiah 61:1-2a].
20 And he closed the scroll, and gave it again to the minister, and sat down: and the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he commenced, saying unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears!

Psalm 40:7-8
7 Then said I, Behold, I come: in the mgillat-kephalidi-header of the Sefer it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my Elohim: Your Torah is within my heart.

And then the certain one said:

Where did you get that translation? You just made it up, didn't you? Can you give me a Hebrew expert who says that the Hebrew word ruach is used as a proper name at Isaiah 61:1?
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And my response was and is this:

Ruach is very likely a proper name in Genesis 1:2, (Ruach Elohim), because Hebrew does not tolerate the article with personal pronouns or proper names. Those who rendered the Septuagint also recognized this fact and rendered the same Genesis 1:2 passage in the Septuagint version without the article in Greek. This anarthrous phrase is very rare in the Greek Apostolic writings but is likewise found in Matthew 3:16, at the immersion of Yeshua, and Paul employs it again in Romans 8:9 where he equates Ruach Elohim with Ruach Meshiah.

Isaiah 61:1 WLC
ר֛וּחַ אֲדֹנָ֥י יְהוִ֖ה עָלָ֑י יַ֡עַן מָשַׁח֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֹתִ֜י לְבַשֵּׂ֣ר עֲנָוִ֗ים שְׁלָחַ֙נִי֙ לַחֲבֹ֣שׁ לְנִשְׁבְּרֵי־לֵ֔ב לִקְרֹ֤א לִשְׁבוּיִם֙ דְּרֹ֔ור וְלַאֲסוּרִ֖ים פְּקַח־קֹֽוחַ׃
http://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/61-1.htm

Isaiah 61:1 Hebrew Transliterated
1 rū·aḥ ’ă·ḏō·nāy YHWH ‘ā·lāy; ya·‘an mā·šaḥ YHWH ’ō·ṯî lə·ḇaś·śêr ‘ă·nā·wîm, šə·lā·ḥa·nî la·ḥă·ḇōš lə·niš·bə·rê- lêḇ, liq·rō liš·ḇū·yim də·rō·wr, wə·la·’ă·sū·rîm pə·qaḥ- qō·w·aḥ.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/isaiah/61.htm

In addition both Luke, which quotes the Septuagint, and the Septuagint itself do not have the article:

Isaiah 61:1 OG Septuagint
61:1 πνευμα κυριου επ' εμε ου εινεκεν εχρισεν με ευαγγελισασθαι πτωχοις απεσταλκεν με ιασασθαι τους συντετριμμενους τη καρδια κηρυξαι αιχμαλωτοις αφεσιν και τυφλοις αναβλεψι
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/23_061.htm

Luke 4:18 Textus Receptus
18 πνευμα κυριου επ εμε ου ενεκεν εχρισε με ευαγγελιζεσθαι πτωχοις απεσταλκε με ιασασθαι τους συντετριμμενους την καρδιαν κηρυξαι αιχμαλωτοις αφεσιν και τυφλοις αναβλεψιν αποστειλαι τεθραυσμενους εν αφεσει

Luke 4:18 Westcott-Hort
18 πνευμα κυριου επ εμε ου εινεκεν εχρισεν με ευαγγελισασθαι πτωχοις απεσταλκεν με κηρυξαι αιχμαλωτοις αφεσιν και τυφλοις αναβλεψιν αποστειλαι τεθραυσμενους εν αφεσει

And although Adonai is missing from the Septuagint and Luke still yet it is abundantly clear that Kurios is the replacement word used throughout the Septuagint for the name of the Father, the Tetragrammaton, which is YHWH.

πνευμα κυριου (anarthrous) = רוח יהוה = Ruach of YHWH
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
daqq said:
The Son of Elohim speaks through the man Yeshua.
Which voice do you hear when you read, (in silence), those words you have quoted?
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Great posts daqq!

This is what I believe :)

The word is the word of God in his son who came into flesh as Jesus the Christ, he came into this world to bare witness to the truth and he was anointed of the father who is the Almighty God, thus making him the Messiah, he resisted Satan and sin thus he was in the full strength of the holy spirit because there was no sin in him, making him in the express image of God. And he received the full power of holy spirit which he received this from his father because he laid down his life and lived by God's will to bare witness to the truth and reconcile us to God through the word, and he only ever spoke what the father gave him, we only ever heard God through him, he never spoke of himself. and because he's the express image of God, and because he only ever spoke what the father gave him to speak, he is Emmanuel, (God with us) but he isn't the Almighty God. And this is what he judges us by, by the word which God gave to him by the spirit. Jesus Christ didn't judge after his flesh, he only judged by the word, he was dead to the flesh and alive in God.

We are not told in the Bible to believe that he is God, but to believe that he is the son of the living God, Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no-one goes to the father except through him. His way is the only way and it's through him that we are saved!

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent (John 17:3)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
marhig said:
Great posts daqq!

This is what I believe :)

The word is the word of God in his son who came into flesh as Jesus the Christ, he came into this world to bare witness to the truth and he was anointed of the father who is the Almighty God, thus making him the Messiah, he resisted Satan and sin thus he was in the full strength of the holy spirit because there was no sin in him, making him in the express image of God. And he received the full power of holy spirit which he received this from his father because he laid down his life and lived by his will to bare witness to the truth and reconcile us to God through the word, and he only ever spoke what the father gave him, we only ever heard God through him, he never spoke of himself. and because he's the express image of God, and because he only ever spoke what the father gave him to speak, he is Emmanuel, (God with us) but he isn't the Almighty God. And this is what he judges us by, by the word which God gave to him by the spirit. Jesus Christ didn't judge after his flesh, he only judged by the word, he was dead to the flesh and alive in God.

We are not told in the Bible to believe that he is God, but to believe that he is the son of the living God, Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no-one goes to the father except through him. His way is the only way and it's through him that we are saved!

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent (John 17:3)
Click to expand...

Hi Marhig, very close to what I believe also. :)
But here is something else for you:

Matthew 1:18-25
[18] But of the Meshiah the genesis-nativity was in this manner: his mother Maryah having been gifted unto Yoseph, before they convened, she was found retaining engastri, (that is, "in belly", for it is by way of consumption of the Word), from Spirit Holy.
[19] And Yoseph her man, being upright and not wanting a public show of her, was of a private mind to put her away.
[20] But as he pondered these things, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yoseph, son of David, fear not to receive your helpmate Maryah, for that being generated in her is from Spirit, it is holy:
[21] And it shall produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name I͞H, for he shall deliver his people from their sins.
[22] But this whole thing was done so that what is spoken from YHWH by way of haNavi Yeshayahu might be fulfilled, saying:
[23] Behold, the virgin shall retain engastri, (in belly), and shall texetai-produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name עמנו־אל, which is interpreted, Ιμμανου·Hλ, (ע־א · I͞H), El is with us.
[24] And Yoseph arose from the hypnos-deep sleep, and did as the Malak of YHWH commanded him, and received his wife, (wife of youth and wife of covenant, Malachi 2:15).
[25] And he knew her not until she produced a son, (tikto plant life), and he called his name I͞H.

In all of the earliest codices, manuscripts, and papyri, which were written in Greek Uncial, (ALL CAPS), the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, which is "JESOU" or "YESHU(A)", is always written in a form which has now come to be known as Nomina Sacra, (if you Google "Nomina Sacra" you will find plenty of information on this topic). In the earliest manuscripts we find what is called the suspended form of Nomina Sacra which, in the case of ΙΗΣΟΥ, is almost always suspended to three letters: the first two letters of the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, (Jesus or Yeshua), with an overstrike above like so, I͞H, plus the case ending, (whatever it happens to be in a given context: final letters for case are necessary in Greek but only for grammatical reasons and not actually parts of the words). Now therefore pay very close attention to what I have posted above, from Matthew 1:23, because the name of Messiah in all of the earliest manuscripts and papyri is not written out as ΙΗΣΟΥ but rather written in what they have assumed is always the suspended Nomina Sacra form as I͞H, (plus the case ending which is not necessary in English). Look at the spelling of Immanu-El which is actually two words, (Immanu and El or Ιμμανου·Hλ).

Ιμμανου·Hλ is the Seed of the Word, that is to say, Meshiah I͞H.

Matthew 2:1-3
[01] But of the I͞H having been born in Bethlehem of Yhudah, in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magoi from the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light appeared at Yerushalem, saying:
[02] Where is the one producing, (tikto plant life), a king of the Yhudim? for we have seen his Star in the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light, and have come to do obeisance unto him.
[03] But hearing, Herod the king was troubled, and all Yerushalem with him.

Read very carefully friend: one is Yeshua, ( I͞H ), one is Immanu·El, ( I͞H ).
 
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marhig

marhig

Well-known member
daqq said:
Hi Marhig, very close to what I believe also. :)
But here is something else for you:

Matthew 1:18-25
[18] But of Meshiah the genesis-nativity was in this manner: his mother Maryah having been gifted unto Yoseph, before they convened, she was found retaining engastri, (that is, "in belly", for it is by way of consumption of the Word), from Spirit Holy.
[19] And Yoseph her man, being upright and not wanting a public show of her, was of a private mind to put her away.
[20] But as he pondered these things, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yoseph, son of David, fear not to receive your helpmate Maryah, for that being generated in her is from Spirit, it is holy:
[21] And it shall produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name IÍžH, for he shall deliver his people from their sins.
[22] But this whole thing was done so that what is spoken from YHWH by way of haNavi Yeshayahu might be fulfilled, saying:
[23] Behold, the virgin shall retain engastri, (in belly), and shall texetai-produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name עמ×*ו־אל, which is interpreted, Ιμμανου·Hλ, (ע־א · IÍžH), El is with us.
[24] And Yoseph arose from the hypnos-deep sleep, and did as the Malak of YHWH commanded him, and received his wife, (wife of youth and wife of covenant, Malachi 2:15).
[25] And he knew her not until she produced a son, (tikto plant life), and he called his name IÍžH.

In all of the earliest codices, manuscripts, and papyri, which were written in Greek Uncial, (ALL CAPS), the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, which is "JESOU" or "YESHU(A)", is always written in a form which has now come to be known as Nomina Sacra, (if you Google "Nomina Sacra" you will find plenty of information on this topic). In the earliest manuscripts we find what is called the suspended form of Nomina Sacra which, in the case of ΙΗΣΟΥ, is almost always suspended to three letters: the first two letters of the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, (Jesus or Yeshua), with an overstrike above like so, IÍžH, plus the case ending, (whatever it happens to be in a given context: final letters for case are necessary in Greek but only for grammatical reasons and not actually parts of the words). Now therefore pay very close attention to what I have posted above, from Matthew 1:23, because the name of Messiah in all of the earliest manuscripts and papyri is not written out as ΙΗΣΟΥ but rather written in what they have assumed is always the suspended Nomina Sacra form as IÍžH, (plus the case ending which is not necessary in English). Look at the spelling of Immanu-El which is actually two words, (Immanu and El or Ιμμανου·Hλ).

Ιμμανου·Hλ is the Seed of the Word, that is to say, Meshiah IÍžH.

Matthew 2:1-3
[01] But of the IÍžH having been born in Bethlehem of Yhudah, in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magoi from the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light appeared at Yerushalem, saying:
[02] Where is the one producing, (tikto plant life), a king of the Yhudim? for we have seen his Star in the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light, and have come to do obeisance unto him.
[03] But hearing, Herod the king was troubled, and all Yerushalem with him.

Read very carefully friend: one is Yeshua, ( IÍžH ), one is Immanu·El, ( IÍžH ).
Click to expand...

Hello again :)

Ok, now I'm a bit lost, I haven't studied like you have, I've only ever read the KJV of the Bible and I have a copy of the English translated pesshita text which I only look at at occasionally. I've had a look, a few months ago at the early symbols which amazed me :)

Anyway, I think you are telling me that the son is separate from the fleshly Jesus and that Jesus was the fleshy body in which the spirit of the son dwelt, is that right? Because that's what I believe in. I believe that the Spirit of Gods son came in the fleshly body of Jesus. Is that what you're saying? If not can you simplify what you're saying for me please? As I haven't done lots of research, I even had to Google the word Septuagint which I saw in your post as I didn't know that it was. Anyway, I believe that God will show me what I am to know in his time. Through either revelation, or through his people. So I don't worry to much. But I'm interested in what you are saying.

I had a quick look at a website to do with the Septuagint and I was amazed because in the beginning of genesis it says that the earth was not furnished. And daqq, I remember seeing that the man whom the wrong spirit came out of, came back into the man's heart with seven devil's worse than himself. And I said to my husband, it was because he was only garnished and not furnished, looking good on the outside but nothing within. And I said we are the earth, and God wants us furnished and we are furnished by him by the power of the Holy Spirit, God wants our hearts full of his fruits, ready for us to bring his love and word to others.

It's no good looking the part being garnished on the outside, when were empty within. It's more important to be furnished within and not worry about our outward appearance in the flesh, especially if it's to be a manpleaser because all that is not important to God, God wants our heart right and for us to do his will, and he will clean us up on the outside by his life within, through Christ by the power of the Spirit.

Anyway, can I ask you what translation is that in your last post please? That looks interesting too :)
 
R

RBBI

New member
daqq said:
Hi Marhig, very close to what I believe also. :)
But here is something else for you:

Matthew 1:18-25
[18] But of the Meshiah the genesis-nativity was in this manner: his mother Maryah having been gifted unto Yoseph, before they convened, she was found retaining engastri, (that is, "in belly", for it is by way of consumption of the Word), from Spirit Holy.
[19] And Yoseph her man, being upright and not wanting a public show of her, was of a private mind to put her away.
[20] But as he pondered these things, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yoseph, son of David, fear not to receive your helpmate Maryah, for that being generated in her is from Spirit, it is holy:
[21] And it shall produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name I͞H, for he shall deliver his people from their sins.
[22] But this whole thing was done so that what is spoken from YHWH by way of haNavi Yeshayahu might be fulfilled, saying:
[23] Behold, the virgin shall retain engastri, (in belly), and shall texetai-produce a son, (tikto plant life), and you shall call his name עמנו־אל, which is interpreted, Ιμμανου·Hλ, (ע־א · I͞H), El is with us.
[24] And Yoseph arose from the hypnos-deep sleep, and did as the Malak of YHWH commanded him, and received his wife, (wife of youth and wife of covenant, Malachi 2:15).
[25] And he knew her not until she produced a son, (tikto plant life), and he called his name I͞H.

In all of the earliest codices, manuscripts, and papyri, which were written in Greek Uncial, (ALL CAPS), the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, which is "JESOU" or "YESHU(A)", is always written in a form which has now come to be known as Nomina Sacra, (if you Google "Nomina Sacra" you will find plenty of information on this topic). In the earliest manuscripts we find what is called the suspended form of Nomina Sacra which, in the case of ΙΗΣΟΥ, is almost always suspended to three letters: the first two letters of the name ΙΗΣΟΥ, (Jesus or Yeshua), with an overstrike above like so, I͞H, plus the case ending, (whatever it happens to be in a given context: final letters for case are necessary in Greek but only for grammatical reasons and not actually parts of the words). Now therefore pay very close attention to what I have posted above, from Matthew 1:23, because the name of Messiah in all of the earliest manuscripts and papyri is not written out as ΙΗΣΟΥ but rather written in what they have assumed is always the suspended Nomina Sacra form as I͞H, (plus the case ending which is not necessary in English). Look at the spelling of Immanu-El which is actually two words, (Immanu and El or Ιμμανου·Hλ).

Ιμμανου·Hλ is the Seed of the Word, that is to say, Meshiah I͞H.

Matthew 2:1-3
[01] But of the I͞H having been born in Bethlehem of Yhudah, in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magoi from the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light appeared at Yerushalem, saying:
[02] Where is the one producing, (tikto plant life), a king of the Yhudim? for we have seen his Star in the Anatole Tzemach Rising Light, and have come to do obeisance unto him.
[03] But hearing, Herod the king was troubled, and all Yerushalem with him.

Read very carefully friend: one is Yeshua, ( I͞H ), one is Immanu·El, ( I͞H ).
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Amen. Dividing asunder spirit from flesh includes the flesh of the man Yeshua.

You ever think about the fact that this revelation is the foundation that the "church" is founded upon, yet so few in the "church" seem to possess it? Blessings...
 
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daqq

Well-known member
marhig said:
Hello again :)

Ok, now I'm a bit lost, I haven't studied like you have, I've only ever read the KJV of the Bible and I have a copy of the English translated pesshita text which I only look at at occasionally. I've had a look, a few months ago at the early symbols which amazed me :)

Anyway, I think you are telling me that the son is separate from the fleshly Jesus and that Jesus was the fleshy body in which the spirit of the son dwelt, is that right? Because that's what I believe in. I believe that the Spirit of Gods son came in the fleshly body of Jesus. Is that what you're saying? If not can you simplify what you're saying for me please? As I haven't done lots of research, I even had to Google the word Septuagint which I saw in your post as I didn't know that it was. Anyway, I believe that God will show me what I am to know in his time. Through either revelation, or through his people. So I don't worry to much. But I'm interested in what you are saying.

I had a quick look at a website to do with the Septuagint and I was amazed because in the beginning of genesis it says that the earth was not furnished. And daqq, I remember seeing that the man whom the wrong spirit came out of, came back into the man's heart with seven devil's worse than himself. And I said to my husband, it was because he was only garnished and not furnished, looking good on the outside but nothing within. And I said we are the earth, and God wants us furnished and we are furnished by him by the power of the Holy Spirit, God wants our hearts full of his fruits, ready for us to bring his love and word to others.

It's no good looking the part being garnished on the outside, when were empty within. It's more important to be furnished within and not worry about our outward appearance in the flesh, especially if it's to be a manpleaser because all that is not important to God, God wants our heart right and for us to do his will, and he will clean us up on the outside by his life within, through Christ by the power of the Spirit.

Anyway, can I ask you what translation is that in your last post please? That looks interesting too :)
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Amen to most all of what you have said here, (and that "translation" is simply my own rendering of the text). It truly is about where the heart is and what is on the inside. No reason to feel lost if you do not understand something; it will come around later if the Father wants you to understand it later in your walk, (maybe so, maybe not necessary for you). It is a great and wonderful walk full of surprises and endless blessings like treasure hidden in a field. No one of us is completely home yet until we leave the carcass to the dust. :)
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
daqq said:
Amen to most all of what you have said here, (and that "translation" is simply my own rendering of the text). It truly is about where the heart is and what is on the inside. No reason to feel lost if you do not understand something; it will come around later if the Father wants you to understand it later in your walk, (maybe so, maybe not necessary for you). It is a great and wonderful walk full of surprises and endless blessings like treasure hidden in a field. No one of us is completely home yet until we leave the carcass to the dust. :)
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Yes I agree, and walking in the light is like a young child learning a new word every day, only it's our inner eyes and ears that are opened to understanding gradually through progressive revelation.

As we do Gods will and turn from the lusts of our flesh, we become stronger in God and he gives us more understanding through revelation, so that we are seeing, hearing and speaking clearer, like watching the dawn breaking until we see in the noon of the perfect day.

I believe that there is a natural and a Spiritual. And the spiritual birth is the new birth. Born anew through a heart cleansed by the Spirit, (virgin birth) producing a living child, bringing forth the holy living son of God in our lives manifest in our flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.
 
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daqq

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Inserting Hebrew where the text was Greek shows that you have an agenda that is something other than looking for the truth.
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Do you not know that Theos is nothing more than a Greek loan word for Elohim?

Genesis 1:26 OG Septuagint
1:26 και ειπεν ο θεος ποιησωμεν ανθρωπον κατ' εικονα ημετεραν και καθ' ομοιωσιν και αρχετωσαν των ιχθυων της θαλασσης και των πετεινων του ουρανου και των κτηνων και πασης της γης και παντων των ερπετων των ερποντων επι της γης
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/01_001.htm

How do you explain that usage if it is not merely a loan word?
My agenda is truth and this alone suggests a huge problem for your own agenda. :chuckle:

Psalm 82:6-7
6 I said, You are Elohim, and all of you are sons of the Most High:
7 But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the sariym-princes.

John 10:34-36
34 Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, "I said, You are Elohim"? [Psalm 82:6]
35 If he called them Elohim, unto whom the Logos of Elohim came, and the scripture cannot be broken:
36 Say you of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, "You blaspheme", because I said, I am a Son of Elohim?
 
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daqq

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Inserting Hebrew where the text was Greek shows that you have an agenda that is something other than looking for the truth.
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daqq said:
Do you not know that Theos is nothing more than a Greek loan word for Elohim?

Genesis 1:26 OG Septuagint
1:26 και ειπεν ο θεος ποιησωμεν ανθρωπον κατ' εικονα ημετεραν και καθ' ομοιωσιν και αρχετωσαν των ιχθυων της θαλασσης και των πετεινων του ουρανου και των κτηνων και πασης της γης και παντων των ερπετων των ερποντων επι της γης
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/01_001.htm

How do you explain that usage if it is not merely a loan word?
My agenda is truth and this alone suggests a huge problem for your own agenda. :chuckle:

Psalm 82:6-7
6 I said, You are Elohim, and all of you are sons of the Most High:
7 But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the sariym-princes.

John 10:34-36
34 Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, "I said, You are Elohim"? [Psalm 82:6]
35 If he called them Elohim, unto whom the Logos of Elohim came, and the scripture cannot be broken:
36 Say you of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, "You blaspheme", because I said, I am a Son of Elohim?
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Right Divider said:
So why the need to change it?
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So why the need to try to paint me as having an agenda when you have not even touched the top two opening posts for this thread? The fact that you wish to make it look as if I have and ulterior motive or a hidden agenda only reveals that you yourself have an agenda. Your agenda is also rendered quite clear by the fact that you have no answer for the two opening posts which are full of the Testimony of Yeshua and refute your dogma based religion of man. But as for your own hidden agenda second question, (which is clearly not so hidden as you might have imagined), ha-Elohim does not always mean what you have been led to believe by Ye Good Ole Boys KJV and all those who followed suit.

So then, now it is your turn to answer my questions: do you confess and affirm all the words of Messiah in the second post of this thread? And if so do you see the very clear and simple systematic logic which results in the destruction of your paradigm? Are you now willing to repent and start believing what the Master Teacher Yeshua actually does teach in his Testimony-Doctrine? You must start firstly with the clear emphatic statements, which are non-negotiable, even if they are only recorded as spoken one time in one place because they are the words of Messiah. Those kinds of statements are deal breakers if you go against them in your doctrine. They are the foundation of the truth in upright doctrine. Can you handle that? You will need to leave your pride with your paradigm at the feet of the one whose name is the Door. :)
 
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