Levolor
New member
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. John 6:46
Also, don't you believe that Jesus is God? Many have seen Him after His resurrection. Do you deny it?
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. John 6:46
Also, don't you believe that Jesus is God? Many have seen Him after His resurrection. Do you deny it?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
being true......
being true......
Temper? I don't see where you get that. I answered clearly, simply using 'bold' for emphasis. I'm not the one using 'exclamation' points, which could be seen as 'shouting'. By comparison, I don't think that shows me as being 'tempermental'.
Since this thread is about the Urantia Papers, whether I've read the Bible 'completely' according to your 'definition' is irrelavent really. My former statements stand. You cant debate something you have no knowledge of, or a misconceived conception of. Since the resource of the UB itself has been made available to you (and so many aids), there is no exuse for 'ignorance'.
Just like yourself.
No attacks are necessary, since truth stands by itself, as any presentation or 'theology' is subject to investigation, which will stand on its own principles. One serious about 'truth' will continually re-evaluate his 'beliefs' and 'assumptions' and be open to learn, which may include changing, dismissing or modifying one's previous conclusions. Only an open mind can receive the current of the Spirit, since that 'inspiration' comes and goes as it wills (moment to moment), and is essentially free.
Again, this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, and is a red herring. I see you're managing a 'pool' of those. My knowledge of the Bible and various religious texts speaks for itself, and is shared when such is appropriate (when there is a dialogue actually ensuing). If you want to debate what the UB teaches, first learn it properly, so we can engage an 'informed' dialogue about it, otherwise,....this is just a merry-go-round. The truth-insights and essential wisdom within the papers far transcends such petty play.
pj
being true......
Temper? I don't see where you get that. I answered clearly, simply using 'bold' for emphasis. I'm not the one using 'exclamation' points, which could be seen as 'shouting'. By comparison, I don't think that shows me as being 'tempermental'.
Since this thread is about the Urantia Papers, whether I've read the Bible 'completely' according to your 'definition' is irrelavent really. My former statements stand. You cant debate something you have no knowledge of, or a misconceived conception of. Since the resource of the UB itself has been made available to you (and so many aids), there is no exuse for 'ignorance'.
Just like yourself.
No attacks are necessary, since truth stands by itself, as any presentation or 'theology' is subject to investigation, which will stand on its own principles. One serious about 'truth' will continually re-evaluate his 'beliefs' and 'assumptions' and be open to learn, which may include changing, dismissing or modifying one's previous conclusions. Only an open mind can receive the current of the Spirit, since that 'inspiration' comes and goes as it wills (moment to moment), and is essentially free.
Again, this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, and is a red herring. I see you're managing a 'pool' of those. My knowledge of the Bible and various religious texts speaks for itself, and is shared when such is appropriate (when there is a dialogue actually ensuing). If you want to debate what the UB teaches, first learn it properly, so we can engage an 'informed' dialogue about it, otherwise,....this is just a merry-go-round. The truth-insights and essential wisdom within the papers far transcends such petty play.
pj
Levolor
New member
The original question was: Have you read the "entire Bible?" Not some, or a little, nor browsed through it! Understand Lev or do you need further exclamation?
Lev, you're just here to cause some problems, I get that, and I'm
proud of you for all the gumption you're displaying! However, I'm
not going to give you anymore of my attention, for now! OK?
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PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Hi, Lev.
The Son is the Logos made flesh, which was and is divine (Theon). The Son is not the Father, but is the Logos OF the Father.
There is a difference in a prosopon (person/face/presence/appearance) and a hypostasis (underlying substantial reality of existence).
The prosopon of the Logos as flesh may indeed be looked upon, but the hypostasis of God (the Father) may not be looked upon.
It's imperative that one understand the distinctions between ousia (essence), hypostasis (substance), and prosopon (person/face) regarding this topic.
God (the Father) as ousia or hypostasis can't be looked upon, but the temporally manifested prosopon of His Logos can be, and was. That was Jesus Christ.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Paper 3 - The Attributes of 'God'
Paper 3 - The Attributes of 'God'
~*~*~
Continuing from the last 2 papers (audio-video) on 'God' indexed here -
Text
One will find that the fundamental definition of 'God' according to classical theism is upheld in the papers, yet further expanded and enchanced within the greater cosmological-context of this being the '5th epochal revelation'. Key elements are revealed in the first 12 chapters, which factor into the entirety of the papers as a whole. The contents and their consistency as an integrated whole stands on its own, as the revelators share on both infinite and finite levels of knowledge.
Since these fundamentals on 'God' are essential to theology itself, such remains a primary subject for discussion here. Again, the essentials of a pure monotheistic even classical concept of 'God' is integral to the UB, with its own modifications.
pj
Paper 3 - The Attributes of 'God'
~*~*~
Continuing from the last 2 papers (audio-video) on 'God' indexed here -
| Paper 3 - The Attributes of God | |
Text
One will find that the fundamental definition of 'God' according to classical theism is upheld in the papers, yet further expanded and enchanced within the greater cosmological-context of this being the '5th epochal revelation'. Key elements are revealed in the first 12 chapters, which factor into the entirety of the papers as a whole. The contents and their consistency as an integrated whole stands on its own, as the revelators share on both infinite and finite levels of knowledge.
Since these fundamentals on 'God' are essential to theology itself, such remains a primary subject for discussion here. Again, the essentials of a pure monotheistic even classical concept of 'God' is integral to the UB, with its own modifications.
pj
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How about a great big NO! This is a Christian site and if these gnostic sojourners want to post this crap then they will have to deal with those that will oppose, refute, and reprove their logical fallacy. Nobody comes to TOL with the expectation that their premise will not be challenged. So, far they have not met the burden of proof for the veracity of their claims that urantia is any more than a sci-fi novel with a trekkie-esk following.
The only thing missing now is for them to post in the klingon language so we don't understand. :chuckle:
:idea: hey there is an idea...
Zeke
Well-known member
Actually your doing this thread more good than harm, the exposure of the christian's on this site speaks volumes about your brand at least.
Your burden of proof has gave up, and went back to assumption mode.
In the next life on the Mansion worlds we will learn new languages.
7. The Fifth Mansion World
(537.1) 47:7.1 Transport to the fifth mansion world represents a tremendous forward step in the life of a morontia progressor. The experience on this world is a real foretaste of Jerusem life. Here you begin to realize the high destiny of the loyal evolutionary worlds since they may normally progress to this stage during their natural planetary development. The culture of this mansion world corresponds in general to that of the early era of light and life on the planets of normal evolutionary progress. And from this you can understand why it is so arranged that the highly cultured and progressive types of beings who sometimes inhabit these advanced evolutionary worlds are exempt from passing through one or more, or even all, of the mansion spheres.
(537.2) 47:7.2 Having mastered the local universe language before leaving the fourth mansion world, you now devote more time to the perfection of the tongue of Uversa to the end that you may be proficient in both languages before arriving on Jerusem with residential status. All ascending mortals are bilingual from the system headquarters up to Havona. And then it is only necessary to enlarge the superuniverse vocabulary, still additional enlargement being required for residence on Paradise.
(537.3) 47:7.3 Upon arrival on mansonia number five the pilgrim is given permission to visit the transition world of corresponding number, the Sons’ headquarters. Here the ascendant mortal becomes personally familiar with the various groups of divine sonship. He has heard of these superb beings and has already met them on Jerusem, but now he comes really to know them.
(537.4) 47:7.4 On the fifth mansonia you begin to learn of the constellation study worlds. Here you meet the first of the instructors who begin to prepare you for the subsequent constellation sojourn. More of this preparation continues on worlds six and seven, while the finishing touches are supplied in the sector of the ascending mortals on Jerusem.
(537.5) 47:7.5 A real birth of cosmic consciousness takes place on mansonia number five. You are becoming universe minded. This is indeed a time of expanding horizons. It is beginning to dawn upon the enlarging minds of the ascending mortals that some stupendous and magnificent, some supernal and divine, destiny awaits all who complete the progressive Paradise ascension, which has been so laboriously but so joyfully and auspiciously begun. At about this point the average mortal ascender begins to manifest bona fide experiential enthusiasm for the Havona ascent. Study is becoming voluntary, unselfish service natural, and worship spontaneous. A real morontia character is budding; a real morontia creature is evolving.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
unlimited and limited knowledge........
unlimited and limited knowledge........
Yes, far beyond anyone's intellectual concept of theology or assumption of a 'faith-tradition', is a basic respect for an open-dialogue on religious or philosophical matters. This allows for a full spectrum of response-mechanisms, but hopefully one can use such 'ground' to foster a creative or productive dialogue, using the 'opportunity' to allow his own presentation to stand upon its own merit, which also includes the 'manner' in which such is presented, which reveals the 'spirit' in which it is shared. In this case, more care is given to responses, that they accord in a way that best represents the value and character of the composer and/or of his representation of 'God'. - this is a serious reflection to consider.
A demand for 'burden of proof' by one, automatically requires the demand for the 'same' by the demander. Its a 2-way street <---->
This puts the 'truth-smack' motif in a 'mirror-position' of like vulnerability, where all views are seriously inspected, and continually re-searched as needed. Knowledge is not something to fear, but to explore and discover, - it is also just as well to admit the 'unknowable' (agnosis), in one's life journey, since there is that which is beyond the 'known', ever residing potentially within the infinite.
pj
unlimited and limited knowledge........
Yes, far beyond anyone's intellectual concept of theology or assumption of a 'faith-tradition', is a basic respect for an open-dialogue on religious or philosophical matters. This allows for a full spectrum of response-mechanisms, but hopefully one can use such 'ground' to foster a creative or productive dialogue, using the 'opportunity' to allow his own presentation to stand upon its own merit, which also includes the 'manner' in which such is presented, which reveals the 'spirit' in which it is shared. In this case, more care is given to responses, that they accord in a way that best represents the value and character of the composer and/or of his representation of 'God'. - this is a serious reflection to consider.
A demand for 'burden of proof' by one, automatically requires the demand for the 'same' by the demander. Its a 2-way street <---->
This puts the 'truth-smack' motif in a 'mirror-position' of like vulnerability, where all views are seriously inspected, and continually re-searched as needed. Knowledge is not something to fear, but to explore and discover, - it is also just as well to admit the 'unknowable' (agnosis), in one's life journey, since there is that which is beyond the 'known', ever residing potentially within the infinite.
pj
Good post!
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Oh, what epic and monumental hypocrisy and inequity of an unparalleled double standard.
YOU gave freelight "what for", yet you demand others desist. The richness of that is beyond words.
Lev, thinks freelight is about the best!
Oh I see you already speak klingon....:chuckle:
I'd like to learn the Martian language myself!
You mean before you were totally deceived by this huckster. He spreads the manure and you just ate it up. Putting out the front of being "Christ Like" or your opinion of what "Christ Like" is really means nothing being he brings you the message and spirit of anti-christ in his message. Wake up....
Gal. 1:8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.
Gal. 1:9 As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed.
Freelight, have you ever been abducted by alien beings? This is a serious
question, please treat it as such! I have a hunch that you may have, not
only been abducted but have had many hours worth of earnest discussions
with those who did not originate on planet earth! I would be interested in
what these beings from another galaxy have disclosed to you in private?
You have the opportunity to share, what it was like to be aboard an alien
spacecraft, and mingling with creatures from another world! I'd also like
to know if you, and they communicated telepathically or otherwise? Did
you have an interesting relationship with them, and were they affable?
Did they question you about, life on earth? Did you find out what their life
expectancy was on their planet and what form of governmental format
they used? I have a myriad of other questions; however, I would prefer
if you added any other relevant details, you might deem
informative? Thanks in advance for your co-operation!
question, please treat it as such! I have a hunch that you may have, not
only been abducted but have had many hours worth of earnest discussions
with those who did not originate on planet earth! I would be interested in
what these beings from another galaxy have disclosed to you in private?
You have the opportunity to share, what it was like to be aboard an alien
spacecraft, and mingling with creatures from another world! I'd also like
to know if you, and they communicated telepathically or otherwise? Did
you have an interesting relationship with them, and were they affable?
Did they question you about, life on earth? Did you find out what their life
expectancy was on their planet and what form of governmental format
they used? I have a myriad of other questions; however, I would prefer
if you added any other relevant details, you might deem
informative? Thanks in advance for your co-operation!
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
- Status