The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Caino

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GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCEMENT TO MARY​

The Annunciation (detail) by Philippe de Champaigne
122:3.1 "One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings when I announce that the conception within you is ordained by heaven, and that in due time you will become the mother of a son; you shall call him Joshua, and he shall inaugurate the kingdom of heaven on earth and among men. Speak not of this matter save to Joseph and to Elizabeth, your kinswoman, to whom I have also appeared, and who shall presently also bear a son, whose name shall be John, and who will prepare the way for the message of deliverance which your son shall proclaim to men with great power and deep conviction. And doubt not my word, Mary, for this home has been chosen as the mortal habitat of the child of destiny. My benediction rests upon you, the power of the Most Highs will strengthen you, and the Lord of all the earth shall overshadow you.”

122:3.2 Mary pondered this visitation secretly in her heart for many weeks until of a certainty she knew she was with child, before she dared to disclose these unusual events to her husband. When Joseph heard all about this, although he had great confidence in Mary, he was much troubled and could not sleep for many nights. At first Joseph had doubts about the Gabriel visitation. Then when he became well-nigh persuaded that Mary had really heard the voice and beheld the form of the divine messenger, he was torn in mind as he pondered how such things could be. How could the offspring of human beings be a child of divine destiny? Never could Joseph reconcile these conflicting ideas until, after several weeks of thought, both he and Mary reached the conclusion that they had been chosen to become the parents of the Messiah, though it had hardly been the Jewish concept that the expected deliverer was to be of divine nature. Upon arriving at this momentous conclusion, Mary hastened to depart for a visit with Elizabeth.

122:3.3 Upon her return, Mary went to visit her parents, Joachim and Hannah. Her two brothers and two sisters, as well as her parents, were always very skeptical about the divine mission of Jesus, though, of course, at this time they knew nothing of the Gabriel visitation. But Mary did confide to her sister Salome that she thought her son was destined to become a great teacher.

122:3.4 Gabriel’s announcement to Mary was made the day following the conception of Jesus and was the only event of supernatural occurrence connected with her entire experience of carrying and bearing the child of promise.

4. JOSEPH’S DREAM​

The Dream of St Joseph by Georges de La Tour
122:4.1 Joseph did not become reconciled to the idea that Mary was to become the mother of an extraordinary child until after he had experienced a very impressive dream. In this dream a brilliant celestial messenger appeared to him and, among other things, said: “Joseph, I appear by command of Him who now reigns on high, and I am directed to instruct you concerning the son whom Mary shall bear, and who shall become a great light in the world. In him will be life, and his life shall become the light of mankind. He shall first come to his own people, but they will hardly receive him; but to as many as shall receive him to them will he reveal that they are the children of God.” After this experience Joseph never again wholly doubted Mary’s story of Gabriel’s visit and of the promise that the unborn child was to become a divine messenger to the world. *

122:4.2 In all these visitations nothing was said about the house of David. Nothing was ever intimated about Jesus’ becoming a “deliverer of the Jews," not even that he was to be the long-expected Messiah. Jesus was not such a Messiah as the Jews had anticipated, but he was the world’s deliverer. His mission was to all races and peoples, not to any one group.

122:4.3 Joseph was not of the line of King David. Mary had more of the Davidic ancestry than Joseph. True, Joseph did go to the City of David, Bethlehem, to be registered for the Roman census, but that was because, six generations previously, Joseph’s paternal ancestor of that generation, being an orphan, was adopted by one Zadoc, who was a direct descendant of David; hence was Joseph also accounted as of the “house of David.”

122:4.4 Most of the so-called Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament were made to apply to Jesus long after his life had been lived on earth. For centuries the Hebrew prophets had proclaimed the coming of a deliverer, and these promises had been construed by successive generations as referring to a new Jewish ruler who would sit upon the throne of David and, by the reputed miraculous methods of Moses, proceed to establish the Jews in Palestine as a powerful nation, free from all foreign domination. Again, many figurative passages found throughout the Hebrew scriptures were subsequently misapplied to the life mission of Jesus. Many Old Testament sayings were so distorted as to appear to fit some episode of the Master’s earth life. Jesus himself onetime publicly denied any connection with the royal house of David. Even the passage, “a maiden shall bear a son,” was made to read, “a virgin shall bear a son.” This was also true of the many genealogies of both Joseph and Mary which were constructed subsequent to Michael’s career on earth. Many of these lineages contain much of the Master’s ancestry, but on the whole they are not genuine and may not be depended upon as factual. The early followers of Jesus all too often succumbed to the temptation to make all the olden prophetic utterances appear to find fulfillment in the life of their Lord" UB 1955
 

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The agreement with Abraham, who demonstrated blind faith in God, was always about the preselected place and culture for the incarnation of the Son of God.
Be specific... what "agreement"?
The Gospel message of the Son was always to be for ALL the world.
What "gospel message" is that? Be SPECIFIC.
But by the time the Son came the Jews had developed a segregated, selfish, "chosen people" tradition based belief about themselves which was incompatible with the Gospel of the kingdom. It still is.
God DID segregate Israel from the rest of the nations.
Lev 20:24 KJV But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.
"Abraham is our father,” they replied.

“If you were children of Abraham,” said Jesus, “you would do the works of Abraham. 40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41You are doing the works of your father.”

Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.


Its you who are confused by the old ideas that the Israelites developed about themselves which were the basis for rejecting the Son.
No, I'm not confused. I leave that totally to you.

I accept the position that God gave Israel. Nothing more, nothing less.

Note that NOW God has made everyone the same by the body of Christ. That will change when God is ready to restore Israel and continue where He left off.
 

Caino

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Be specific... what "agreement"?

First, the visible representative of God on earth who made the agreement with Abram was the incarnate Melchizedek. Melchizedek was on the earth for 94 years on an emergency basis as faith in the one God was dyeing out. Melchizedek maintained a missionary colony in Salem which eventually became Jebus then Jerusalem. He sent out missionaries far an wide teaching of the One God.


THE SALEM RELIGION​

93:4.1 The ceremonies of the Salem worship were very simple. Every person who signed or marked the clay-tablet rolls of the Melchizedek church committed to memory, and subscribed to, the following belief:

1. I believe in El Elyon, the Most High God, the only Universal Father and Creator of all things.
2. I accept the Melchizedek covenant with the Most High, which bestows the favor of God on my faith, not on sacrifices and burnt offerings.
3. I promise to obey the seven commandments of Melchizedek and to tell the good news of this covenant with the Most High to all men.
93:4.5 And that was the whole of the creed of the Salem colony. But even such a short and simple declaration of faith was altogether too much and too advanced for the men of those days. They simply could not grasp the idea of getting divine favor for nothing—by faith. They were too deeply confirmed in the belief that man was born under forfeit to the gods. Too long and too earnestly had they sacrificed and made gifts to the priests to be able to comprehend the good news that salvation, divine favor, was a free gift to all who would believe in the Melchizedek covenant. But Abraham did believe halfheartedly, and even that was "counted for righteousness."

93:4.6 The seven commandments promulgated by Melchizedek were patterned along the lines of the ancient Dalamatian supreme law and very much resembled the seven commands taught in the first and second Edens. These commands of the Salem religion were:

1. You shall not serve any God but the Most High Creator of heaven and earth.
2. You shall not doubt that faith is the only requirement for eternal salvation.
3. You shall not bear false witness.
4. You shall not kill.
5. You shall not steal.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not show disrespect for your parents and elders.
 

Caino

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What was the "covenant" with Abraham?


. MELCHIZEDEK'S COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM​

93:6.1 Abraham envisaged the conquest of all Canaan. His determination was only weakened by the fact that Melchizedek would not sanction the undertaking. But Abraham had about decided to embark upon the enterprise when the thought that he had no son to succeed him as ruler of this proposed kingdom began to worry him. He arranged another conference with Melchizedek; and it was in the course of this interview that the priest of Salem, the visible Son of God, persuaded Abraham to abandon his scheme of material conquest and temporal rule in favor of the spiritual concept of the kingdom of heaven.

93:6.2Melchizedek explained to Abraham the futility of contending with the Amorite confederation but made it equally clear that these backward clans were certainly committing suicide by their foolish practices so that in a few generations they would be so weakened that the descendants of Abraham, meanwhile greatly increased, could easily overcome them.

God's promises to Abraham by James Tissot
93:6.3 And Melchizedek made a formal covenant with Abraham at Salem. Said he to Abraham: "Look now up to the heavens and number the stars if you are able; so numerous shall your seed be." And Abraham believed Melchizedek, "and it was counted to him for righteousness." And then Melchizedek told Abraham the story of the future occupation of Canaan by his offspring after their sojourn in Egypt.

93:6.4 This covenant of Melchizedek with Abraham represents the great Urantian agreement between divinity and humanity whereby God agrees to do everything; man only agrees to believe God's promises and follow his instructions. Heretofore it had been believed that salvation could be secured only by works—sacrifices and offerings; now, Melchizedek again brought to Urantia the good news that salvation, favor with God, is to be had by faith. But this gospel of simple faith in God was too advanced; the Semitic tribesmen subsequently preferred to go back to the older sacrifices and atonement for sin by the shedding of blood.

93:6.5 It was not long after the establishment of this covenant that Isaac, the son of Abraham, was born in accordance with the promise of Melchizedek. After the birth of Isaac, Abraham took a very solemn attitude toward his covenant with Melchizedek, going over to Salem to have it stated in writing. It was at this public and formal acceptance of the covenant that he changed his name from Abram to Abraham.

93:6.6 Most of the Salem believers had practiced circumcision, though it had never been made obligatory by Melchizedek. Now Abraham had always so opposed circumcision that on this occasion he decided to solemnize the event by formally accepting this rite in token of the ratification of the Salem covenant.

93:6.7 It was following this real and public surrender of his personal ambitions in behalf of the larger plans of Melchizedek that the three celestial beings appeared to him on the plains of Mamre. This was an appearance of fact, notwithstanding its association with the subsequently fabricated narratives relating to the natural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And these legends of the happenings of those days indicate how retarded were the morals and ethics of even so recent a time.

93:6.8 Upon the consummation of the solemn covenant, the reconciliation between Abraham and Melchizedek was complete. Abraham again assumed the civil and military leadership of the Salem colony, which at its height carried over one hundred thousand regular tithe payers on the rolls of the Melchizedek brotherhood. Abraham greatly improved the Salem temple and provided new tents for the entire school. He not only extended the tithing system but also instituted many improved methods of conducting the business of the school, besides contributing greatly to the better handling of the department of missionary propaganda. He also did much to effect improvement of the herds and the reorganization of the Salem dairying projects. Abraham was a shrewd and efficient business man, a wealthy man for his day; he was not overly pious, but he was thoroughly sincere, and he did believe in Machiventa Melchizedek." UB 1955
 

Caino

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Between Melchizedeks simple but powerful concepts of faith in God and Jesus, the Israelites had vastly complicated their evolved religion with all sorts of rituals, laws, ceremonies, traditions, festivals and sacrifices etc. Jesus returned to the simple covenant of salvation by faith in the Father and the responsibility that comes with being a son of God.

What "gospel message" is that? Be SPECIFIC.


"In answer to Thomas's question, “Who is this God of the kingdom?” Jesus replied: “God is your Father, and religion —my gospel—is nothing more nor less than the believing recognition of the truth that you are his son. And I am here among you in the flesh to make clear both of these ideas in my life and teachings.” UB 1955
 

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Be specific... what "agreement"?

First, the visible representative of God on earth who made the agreement with Abram was the incarnate Melchizedek. Melchizedek was on the earth for 94 years on an emergency basis as faith in the one God was dyeing out. Melchizedek maintained a missionary colony in Salem which eventually became Jebus then Jerusalem. He sent out missionaries far an wide teaching of the One God.
Quote from the Bible.
I don't accept your cartoon book.
 

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Between Melchizedeks simple but powerful concepts of faith in God and Jesus, the Israelites had vastly complicated their evolved religion with all sorts of rituals, laws, ceremonies, traditions, festivals and sacrifices etc. Jesus returned to the simple covenant of salvation by faith in the Father and the responsibility that comes with being a son of God.

What "gospel message" is that? Be SPECIFIC.
Quote from the Bible.
I don't accept your cartoon book.
 

Caino

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Quote from the Bible.
I don't accept your cartoon book.
Covenants from the Bible

With Abraham multiple promised lands were given to his innumerable descendants (Gen 15:18-21; 17:1-9, 19; 22:15-18; 26:2-4, 24; 28; 35:9-13; Gal 3; Abr 2:6-11), with special 'gathering' and leadership roles assigned to the descendants of Joseph and his son Ephraim (Gen 48 and 50; Deut 33:17; 1 Chron 5:1-2; Psalm 80:2; Isaiah 11:13; Jer 31:6, 9; Ezek 37:15-19; Zech 10:6-12), and circumcision marking them as a peculiar people set apart (Gen 17:10-13).

In Genesis chapters 12–17 three covenants can be distinguished based on the differing Jahwist, Elohist and Priestly sources. In Genesis 12 and 15, God grants Abraham land and a multitude of descendants but does not place any stipulations (meaning it was unconditional) on Abraham for the covenant's fulfillment.

By contrast, Genesis 17 contains the covenant of circumcision (conditional).

  1. To make of Abraham a great nation and bless Abraham and make his name great so that he will be a blessing, to bless those who bless him and curse him who curses him and all peoples on earth would be blessed through Abraham.[Gen 12:1–3]
  2. To give Abraham's descendants all the land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates.[Gen 15:18–21] Later, this land came to be referred to as the Promised Land (see map) or the Land of Israel.
  3. To make Abraham the father of many nations and of many descendants and give "the whole land of Canaan" to his descendants.[Gen 17:2–9] Circumcision is to be the permanent sign of this everlasting covenant with Abraham and his male descendants and is known as the brit milah.[Gen 17:9–14]
 

Caino

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The gospel message of Jesus was individual salvation by faith in God the Father and for ALL the world. Nationalist Israelites didn't like that so they killed Jesus.

John 5:24 (ESV)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”


The Jews were expecting a Messiah who would bring them deliverance from the nations enemies. The Jews Messiah hasn't come yet.
 

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The gospel message of Jesus was individual salvation by faith in God the Father and for ALL the world. Nationalist Israelites didn't like that so they killed Jesus.
That is nonsense. But at least you actually specified what you were talking about for a change.
John 5:24 (ESV)
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
This statement does NOT negate the gospel of the kingdom, nor any of the other gospels in the Bible.
The Jews were expecting a Messiah who would bring them deliverance from the nations enemies.
Of course they were. That is what God told them to expect.
Luk 1:67-75 KJV And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, (68) Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (72) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (74) That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
The Jews Messiah hasn't come yet.
Yes, He has. His name is Jesus.
 

Caino

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That is nonsense. But at least you actually specified what you were talking about for a change.

This statement does NOT negate the gospel of the kingdom, nor any of the other gospels in the Bible.

Of course they were. That is what God told them to expect.


Yes, He has. His name is Jesus.
The ethnic Israelites compiled the scriptures which are about themselves as a nation. Their secular history books vanished although those books are still mentioned in their revised scripture books. It’s like the Democrats in America controlling the media message.

The Messianic expectations of Israel failed, so Jewish followers of Jesus devised new expectations that Jesus would “soon return” to restore the Kingdom of Israel and carry out what they were expecting the first time.

Since the Jews rejected their calling, rejected the Gospel of God on earth in Jesus, protection and oversight was pulled away and Jerusalem was destroyed.
 

Caino

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This book utterly DESTROYS the idea that the Pentateuch was simply a compilation of writings by multiple people. It establishes quite clearly that only one person wrote the first five books of the Bible.
I can see that the scriptures show multiple authors and conflicting details about the same events which appear to be greatly exaggerated by a proud people after they lost their country and sacred Temple.

The point of Israel was to host the Son of God, receive his message and in turn teach it to the world. Tragically the Israelites were unreachable!
 

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I can see that the scriptures show multiple authors

You can't see anything because you have a blindfold on called "urantia book."

Take off the blindfold, so that you can see.

and conflicting details about the same events which appear to be greatly exaggerated by a proud people after they lost their country and sacred Temple.

I have already acknowledged that the Bible in it's current form is not perfect, nor does it contain zero errors.

In what way do the errors that do, in fact, exist, change the overall message of the Bible?

Do you not think that God could write a book in such a way that it couldn't survive a few errata being introduced through transcriptions?

The point of Israel was to host the Son of God, receive his message and in turn teach it to the world. Tragically the Israelites were unreachable!

:yawn:
 

Caino

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DUDE!!!

You are all over the road and in the ditch.

WHICH ONE was THE ONE what you were talking about in your previous post?

You cannot make a point with this sawed-off shotgun approach to "dialog".

You can't see anything because you have a blindfold on called "urantia book."

Take off the blindfold, so that you can see.



I have already acknowledged that the Bible in it's current form is not perfect, nor does it contain zero errors.

In what way do the errors that do, in fact, exist, change the overall message of the Bible?

Do you not think that God could write a book in such a way that it couldn't survive a few errata being introduced through transcriptions?



:yawn:
I had the Bible before I received the gift of the Urantia revelation, a story that explains an awful lot in light of what we have preserved in the Bible. Many former, hardened Atheist who found faith in God in the Urantia papers often say that the UB helped them believe much more of what's in the Bible having the UB explanation of things.

I know what's in the Bible, I'm not blind. I know a lot more about what's in the Bible than average Christians who don't care enough to read it.

I see the Bible as the "written word" which we should expect to contain errors. Jesus was the Living Word of God before us, but he wasn't a book, he wrote nothing that was preserved and that was deliberate. What did survive in the red letters isn't perfect but that doesn't bother my faith in him or the Father. There is enough there to immortalize it and has been a guide up to the UB.
 

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I had the Bible before

So what? So does most of the world who rejects it.

I received the gift of the Urantia revelation,

AKA: putting the blindfold on.

a story that explains an awful lot in light of what we have preserved in the Bible.

Correction, a fairytale that does damage to scripture.

Many former, hardened Atheist who found faith in God in the Urantia papers often say that the UB helped them believe much more of what's in the Bible having the UB explanation of things.

In other words, they went from one fairytale to another...

I know what's in the Bible,

No, you don't.

I'm not blind.

Says the one with the blindfold on...

I know a lot more about what's in the Bible than average Christians who don't care enough to read it.

That's not saying much...

I see the Bible as the "written word" which we should expect to contain errors.

It doesn't matter what you "see" it as.

It IS, in fact, the word of God, which has been preserved to an enormous extent, with only minor errors that have crept in that do not change the overall message of the Bible.

Jesus was the Living Word of God before us, but he wasn't a book, he wrote nothing that was preserved and that was deliberate. What did survive in the red letters isn't perfect but that doesn't bother my faith in him or the Father. There is enough there to immortalize it and has been a guide up to the UB.

Your faith is vain, because it is not in the one who made you.
 

Caino

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It IS, in fact, the word of God, which has been preserved to an enormous extent, with only minor errors that have crept in that do not change the overall message of the Bible.



Moses Receives the Tablets

18When the LORD had finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.


19As Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, he burned with anger and threw the tablets out of his hands, shattering them at the base of the mountain.

There is an example of claiming God wrote something in stone with his own finger that didn't even last a week!
 

JudgeRightly

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Moses Receives the Tablets

18When the LORD had finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.


19As Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, he burned with anger and threw the tablets out of his hands, shattering them at the base of the mountain.

There is an example of claiming God wrote something in stone with his own finger that didn't even last a week!

Your point? The 10 commandments didn't disappear when the tablets broke...
 
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