The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Yes, it seems that most Christians are so loyal to their own church, denomination or doctrines. Their passion should be to Jesus' teaching since we claim to be He is the Lord.

Some have set themselves up as 'apologists' for the Lord, defending their own 'version' of the gospel, and in the meantime often create their own 'enemies' to battle to keep themselves "busy for the Lord", and to hold their 'belief' as 'exclusive' and 'orthodox'. - this keeps the 'heresy-hunters' in business, and comforts the 'faith' of some, since it needs to be continually 'fortified'. - but those continually defending their 'theology' or concept of 'God', might really show their own insecurity, hence the NEED to continually belittle other beliefs or schools of thought, to make their own seem 'right' or 'better'. It may be just serving the religious ego. They are needy in that respect. Truth however needs no defense, no apologies. It speaks for itself on principle, ethics, morals, decency, integrity, having its own logic, rationale and wisdom. What is being shared here on 'blood atonement' or any religious subject must be weighed by these scales, and their own merits.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Well as I said, haven't read it. And to me, Gods faithfuls are those who do his will following Jesus, and not what denomination they attend!

There is only one way and that's through Jesus and Jesus isn't a denomination! And there are many that are full of evil that attend mainstream Christan churches!

DOING God's will is what avails. Other orthodox religious traditions hold to the same truth...not just Christianity ;)
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Making the inner and outer as ONE.......

Making the inner and outer as ONE.......

The world is not peaceful. The earth will be paradise.

Regarding your exchange with marhig,....yes, it is proposed that a 'new heaven and new earth' shall come into being, and a millennial reign of the Messiah (some debate whether this will actually be 1,000 years in earth-time or not). As of yet this has not yet happed on a global level of universal peace and righteousness among all peoples. The Messiah is ultimately 'supposed' to help bring this reality into being. Why don't we see it 'outwardly' yet?

Well, as shared,...each person must first have the Spirit of Messiah, the spirit of God, the spirit of truth, abiding on the inside, leading, guiding, directing that person to be a 'vessel' of God's love, peace, righteousness, etc....."Christ in us, the hope of glory". If not all persons are filled with God's Spirit and living God's will, HOW can there be a universal reign of peace and righteousness on the earth? So, unless a mass shift or transformation of consciousness HAPPENS and transforms humanity as a whole, into a more purified, perfect condition of heart and soul,...there WONT be heaven on earth, no matter how much we theorize or preach about it. So we have to reconcile the inner kingdom of the Spirit within individuals with the greater universal condition of society on the outward level as we inter-act and experience it. Obviously, for the kingdom of heaven to be REALIZED in fullness/totality....BOTH inner and outer worlds must harmonize as one.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
freelight,

Your faith is too humanistic and philosophystical, and don't consider much of Christianity.

Christianity is not just in our mind. It is real and we will have real peaceful and loving earth. You don't seem to believe second life.

So your comments are meaningless to me.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
freelight,

you have been analyzing other's religion but you don't want to talk about your own even when asked.

It is strange.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Marhig,

here is paradise earth that Christians are looking forward to:


Isaiah 65:17-25
King James Version (KJV)
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations, And will decide concerning many peoples; And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning-hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war any more.

Revelation 21 A New Heaven and a New Earth
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”


So do you believe that people will rise from their natural graves and live here on this earth meshak? Is that what you are saying?

God is Spirit, and all those who belong to God will be with him in the Spirit. This world is not of God. The kingdom's of this world belong to Satan, he has control of them that's why he was able to offer them to Jesus. Jesus has no interest in them, he wasn't interested in them the first he time he came and he's not interested in them now. Jesus is interested in our hearts, and Gods kingdom, and reconciling us back to God. It's nothing to do with the natural world.

You're looking at those verses in the flesh not the Spirit, we are the earth, maybe you could pray ask God to show you what it means.
 

marhig

Well-known member
DOING God's will is what avails. Other orthodox religious traditions hold to the same truth...not just Christianity ;)
John 14

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

The way is narrow. And Jesus Christ is the only way.

And it depends what you mean by Christianity. Christianity isn't just saying I believe, following Christ is living by the will of God!
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
So do you believe that people will rise from their natural graves and live here on this earth meshak? Is that what you are saying?

God is Spirit, and all those who belong to God will be with him in the Spirit. This world is not of God. The kingdom's of this world belong to Satan, he has control of them that's why he was able to offer them to Jesus. Jesus has no interest in them, he wasn't interested in them the first he time he came and he's not interested in them now. Jesus is interested in our hearts, and Gods kingdom, and reconciling us back to God. It's nothing to do with the natural world.

You're looking at those verses in the flesh not the Spirit, we are the earth, maybe you could pray ask God to show you what it means.

Your views are not so different to freelight and he is for Urantia, and not the Bible..

Jesus Christ was resurrected in the same flesh of man that He is.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Its a change in the body not a disappearing, or dissolution.

Jesus said He is not a spirit.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The reason you have gone over to spiritualism, is that you can not face reality.

Jesus suffered and died. You want to try it sometime. It really hurts like hell.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

But of course you do not accept His atoning sacrifice on your behalf.

LA
 

marhig

Well-known member
[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION]

Hi, I've read a few posts at the beginning of this thread, can I ask you this. Why do you think that we would need other celestial beings to bring us understanding when we have the Holy Spirit in the heart who teaches us all things?

I don't think that celestial beings have visited this planet. And to be honest, I don't think about what goes on in other worlds, we have enough to do in this one. I don't look further than the heart, and through Christ being right before God, doing his will and following Jesus. I take each day as it comes and leave my life in the hands of God.

So looking to other worlds and other celestial beings etc. to me isn't a necessity to know the living God, it's the heart condition, and having soft ground when the seed falls.

We can read the Bible, pray from our hearts, love God with our all and love our neighbour as ourselves. If we do these things and do his will, then he will be with us as he won't leave us and by the Spirit he will teach us all we need to know.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Your views are not so different to freelight and he is for Urantia, and not the Bible..

Jesus Christ was resurrected in the same flesh of man that He is.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Its a change in the body not a disappearing, or dissolution.

Jesus said He is not a spirit.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The reason you have gone over to spiritualism, is that you can not face reality.

Jesus suffered and died. You want to try it sometime. It really hurts like hell.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

But of course you do not accept His atoning sacrifice on your behalf.

LA
You're not looking at those verses in the Spirit but by the flesh.

Jesus said those who have ears to hear, hear
 

marhig

Well-known member
Also marhig,...do you have a laptop or desktop computer, or a larger tablet? I just wonder how some people engage the full features of the discussion forum here, on a little smartphone, It would seem constrained a bit or limited with small screen and limited options, but I don't know,....I don't have or use a smartphone, and have full command at my desktop here :) - beyond that I have a few kindle fire tablets I use when away my 'terminal'. I don't even care much for the TOL mobile app on my smaller 7" kindle tablets,...and usually just go to the full format version online.

We do have a desktop, but I don't go on it very often, I have the tapatalk app on my phone and I access TOL through that. It doesn't have chat etc, so it is probably pretty limited. But I'm always busy at home, so it's more convenient to look on my phone than load up a pc. :)
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
meaning must be properly perceived.........

meaning must be properly perceived.........

freelight,

Your faith is too humanistic and philosophystical, and don't consider much of Christianity.

I let my commentary speak for itself, if or how one understands or interprets it will be according to that one's comprehension level, ability to access the language and terms and process such in a coherent, logical manner. - this accounts for the great variety and differences in 'translation' and 'interpretation'. - every religious tradition has diversity, look at all the denominations within Christendom,...its a smorgasboard :)

As far as 'humanism' goes, that's a matter of defining,...'God' is truly interested in human potential and progress! I guess He's a super-humanist :) - again....its all how you define terms.

Christianity is not just in our mind. It is real and we will have real peaceful and loving earth. You don't seem to believe second life.

I think your issue might be a matter of proper undersanding and 'interpretation' of what is being shared ;) - you didn't quite get that the 'inner' kingdom must correlate to the 'outer' kingdom as well, (making the 'inner' and 'outer' as 'one') and until all souls are purified and aligned with the Spirit and will of 'God',...there wont be any 'heaven' on 'earth'. You have to be in proper 'at-one-ment' (attunement). You make first the inner cup clean, then you can polish the outside, so to speak. The kingdom of heaven is first established within the soul (YOU are the temple of 'God'), then it can be LIVED in relationship with others.

A magic wand being waved somewhere in the aether will not bring about the kingdom, since 'God' has chosen to engage man in a covenant-fashion, a cooperative effort...to bring about his will on earth. IF you don't see the will of God prevailing on earth, whose fault is that? Good question eh? - Its a co-operative effort, we must choose to respond to the call and grace that is afforded, and bring heaven down to earth. God calls, man responds. The planting and the harvest is one.

Otherwise, you have any number of speculations of HOW the world will abide in universal peace and righteousness,....assuming all souls will be filled with God's LOVE, and let LOVE be the guiding principle, the presiding law. Since Love is the fulfilling of the law, until love is realized, lived and expressed by all souls in relationship with one another, there is no kingdom of heaven.

So your comments are meaningless to me.

As noted earlier, perhaps that's because you fail to understand or properly interpret them. They speak for themselves. If you find no value or meaning in my correspondence with you, you are free to refrain from engaging, but I gather the opportunity and benefit of 'creative dialogue' and 'stimulating discourse' outweighs the negatives of condescending speech, so I shall continue to share the logos of God as I see it. Value and meaning is important in the kingdom, in any spiritual study or research. 'God' alone is the source of all value and meaning, so our attunement with His Spirit would be key in the most simple spiritual matters, or anything as high as cracking the cosmic code, for starters :)

The sky is the limit.......
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You seem to mix Christianity with other pagan religions.

How so? - The subject here is actually the Urantia Papers,...see the OP for starters, find a subject related and feel free to engage. We've written much about it so far. I've amply shared about the 'blood atonement' concept, its teachings about it, and my own insights on the matter. The UB also has great insights on 'free will', shared as well :)

This is why you cannot speak for Jesus or criticize Christians.

What is written speaks for itself :) - now understanding and propery interpreting it...that's another matter.

I think Jesus does a wonderful job of speaking for himself, and his words are not limited to just 4 gospels. Jesus said and did many things that even a whole library much less the world could contain, if you believe John. But maybe that part of John was a redaction :rolleyes:

I will continue to critique, commentate and expound, since that is what I do :) - you're welcome to engage in dialogue, or refrain, but be assured,....what needs to be addressed will be addressed. That's the joy and challenge of 'discussion'. - it forces one to confront, question and re-evaluate their opinions, beliefs and points of view. - all points of view are SUBJECT to change. Speculation must be shared as being just that, and points are view are JUST THAT....'points of view'.
 
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