The Joys of Catholicism

[God's Truth]

You are correct. He claims the same multiple times at his trials...

START AT CHAPTER 21 HIS ARREST

What were the charges the Jews accussed Paul with...the same you claim actually...the irony

Verse 28 “men of Israel help this is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people the law and this place...”

Verse 31 “they were seeking to kill him...” you know, for what you too accuse him of...that the law changed, Sabbath is done away with, no need for His festivals anymore, we can eat dogs..

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Galatians 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. They only do this to avoid persecution for the cross of Christ.

Now please imagine if he taught the joys of Catholicism...3 and 1 god...Peter was holy christ on earth...make images to honor them pray at them...eat His flesh and blood...use Rosary...Mary and all the saints alive in heaven...purgatory...eternal hell fire...the list goes on and on...

Surely the Jews would be offended and accuse him of all that too!! And wish to kill him...

But Paul was able to calm them down by speaking in Hebrew...NOT LATIN...remember they KNOW Paul as the christian killing Pharisee...

However when he got to the part that he admits he was sent to give the message to the Gentiles the jews demanded to kill him...

They wanted Paul killed before that because they thought he was trying to trick them into saying they believed in Jesus so that Paul could drag them off to prison.

So what is their charge? Jesus to the gentiles...NOTHING MORE...nothing about Sabbath becoming a man or every day...

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Hebrews 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

Hebrews 10:1 [ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Galatians 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

(Now at this point there was NO NT...no gospels...so of course it all came from the OT...Paul had written some letters that could have been submitted as evidence to his abrogating the Immutable law...NONE WAS PROVIDED as those letters did not abrogate the Law...)

The OLD COVENANT spoke of a time when a NEW COVENANT would be made and Stephen and Paul were trying to show that Jesus coming is the fulfillment of those prophecies.

There is a difference in old covenant and new covenant so why are you fighting against it?

 

[clefty]

You spoke against it and made fun of it.

I did? Where?

You first twisted the truth about Jesus saying no lusting in the heart and do not hate and get angry,

again where?

and now you are still confused about food not making anyone unclean. FOOD DOES NOT MAKE ONE UNCLEAN.

sure it does...as do thoughts thinking that they don't
you said it yourself that it comes from inside...

...like a unclean hunger for unclean foods...

Jesus isn't being ironic. Jesus says the words people say make them unclean.

cuz words come from thoughts and feelings in the heart...duh inside first then out...

You don't know what I eat you false witness. You don't speak like Jesus. Jesus told the PHARISEES it is not what goes in a person it is what comes out and according to your twist, those Pharisees have a good heart because they don't eat pork.

no those Pharisees had a bad heart because of their defiled actions and defiled words came from a defiled heart...not because they did or didn't eat pork...all from the inner to the outer...

Do you ever say that to the Catholics?

sure when I can...and they argue JUST LIKE YOU...that it's NOT the image going into our eyes or the outside world defiling us...or that their outer action of bowing or lighting candles is defiling as it is their inner prayers which go through the image to their prototypes...or something...

You said not to speak to the Catholic and tell them such things.

no...I told you not lie about what they teach which is NOT as you say "they sacrifice Jesus a billion times"...

Jesus says NOT what goes in reveals their heart but what comes out.

right...the INNER is reveal by what comes out...just like the INNER is revealed by what it allows to go IN...

Do you think your twisting of the truth is from God?

having to twist it back o be straight from your twisting...is why Peter said he still did not eat unclean meat...even after being commanded in a vision...He translated 2X that the vision was about goyim like you and me are clean enough to preach to...but you insist we can eat dog now...

There is no me finally seeing something when I have been trying to show you.

you saw what you were trying to show me only briefly I guess....that the inner anger and lust precede the outer action...JUST like the inner hunger for unclean meat is a defiled hunger...

 

[God's Truth]

Acts 15:7-9”...gave them the Holy Spirit just as He did to us and made NO DISTINCTION between us and them”

One group keeping Sabbath and the other every day all day rest would be quite distinctive as would be one group not eating unclean and the other eating dog...

But Yah couldn’t tell them apart...cuz they all obeyed the SAME LAW JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and foreigner...

THEY WEREN'T EVEN CIRCUMCISED!!!

 

[God's Truth]

EXACTLY...Salvation is NOT...but living saved is...

Salvation and living saved is the same thing.

representing Him His Love His WAY is...how else would the world know Him but by our/His fruits...works...

...and eating and drinking and observing special days means nothing.

Those things are not of the Spirit.

Those things are earthly things.

We don’t keep the Law IT KEEPS US

You are twisting again, for the Bible says we are to keep the law, the new law of Christ.

...again it’s like an owner’s manual which we follow and do the instructions...NOT to earn the car...but because we already own it...

No such thing.

We don't get saved unless we obey what Jesus taught.

Jesus didn't teach 'do not carry on the Sabbath'. Jesus didn't teach 'put to death people who work on the Sabbath'. Jesus didn't teach' get circumcised on the eighth day'. Jesus didn't teach 'don't eat unclean food', etc.

Jesus came and fulfilled the law and taught new things that made changes to the old law.

right Sabbath is EXACTLY that...A GIFT from above not having variable ness nor shadow of turning...into your Sabbath of every day rest

A Sabbath day coming and going and coming and going IS ABOUT SHIFTING SHADOWS.

You mean the apostles were teaching the faith OF Yahushua...His WAY...Paul was fearful even that the Galatians were falling back again to their ancient ways and culture of Gaul...Gal 4:10-11

Paul was worried because the JEWS talked the Galatians into doing the old law like OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS which was now WORTHLESS and getting CIRCUMCISED in the flesh.

AGAIN PLEASE PAY ATTENTION...the Law does NOT SAVE never did...it points out sin...

Obeying the LAW DID SAVE it made one a CHILD OF GOD or not!

What do you think being cast out is about?

Matthew 8:12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

It was GRACE that He gave instructions and procedures to show how we can become clean again...

His people do NOT do the Law in order to be SAVED...but because they already are...and now are quite peculiar from the world...

No such thing as being saved then obeying before being saved.

GOT IT? We are saved by FAITH in HIM...Who saves...and says go and sin no more...and by grace showed us how...

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those whohear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.



No such thing as just have faith and no need to do anything else to get saved.

Paul was getting it from those that claimed gentiles MUST be circumcised to be saved...which was NEVER TAUGHT in the OT...

Of course it was taught that one MUST GET CIRCUMCISED in the flesh.

as how could anything done to you while an infant save you?...and what saves woman who are not cut?

I already explained it to you before that a woman must make sure her male children are circumcised. Zipporah is proof of that.

But if he taught circumcision he would feel persecuted by the Spirit/believers...but to the jew the offense of the cross would cease...is why he wished those troubling jews to be cut off...

Paul was emphasizing the cross is the last shedding of blood...as we are to be circumcised in our hearts to follow Him even to our own cross...uncompromised...

...and the OLD LAW, OLD COVENANT said to be CIRCUMCISED in the FLESH and NOT TO EAT PORK and to observe the SABBATH.

The NEW LAW, the NEW COVENANT says it is no longer about those things.

You claim Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...Jews claimed Stephen taught that...Luke called them false witnesses cuz Stephen did NOT teach that because Jesus did NOT do that...Acts 6:13-14

He certainly did NOT change Sabbath into every day rest...or teach it is good to earn a living on that Holy day...

You deny what Jesus taught and what he does.

 

[God's Truth]

And Isaiah writes one day (you know in the new heaven and new earth)...from New moon to new moon Sabbath to Sabbath...

The moon and days are SHIFTING SHADOWS.

We NO LONGER go by shifting shadows.

Oh and Heb 4:9 Sabbatismos Sabbath keeping remains...for His people...Not you I guess...

That scripture is explaining that JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST.

Begging you to follow Him and keep His Father’s will and stop pretending every day rest is a Sabbath day...

You are warned not to be a bitter root springing up to defile others.

Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

Either way the irony that Paul admits Peter is compelling gentiles to live as jews...hypocritically when he socializes and mixes it up and eats with gentiles...as gentiles do...

You aren't reading it carefully, for Paul says Peter USED to eat with the Gentiles but NOW IS ACTING OUT OF LINE WITH THE TRUTH because he is NO LONGER eating with the Gentiles.

Is why people got mad apostles were teaching customs NOT for Romans...you think apostles were teaching Romans to eat pork?

The Gentile Romans knew they USED TO BE EXCLUDED AND WITHOUT GOD for NOT getting circumcised and for NOT adhering to the Jews' dietary laws---Paul is explaining that it is no more of those things.

 

[clefty]

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

again let no one judge you but the body of Christ...Paul knew there were jews about insisting gentile believers be circumcised Paul himself circumcised Timothy to shut them up...AND STILL HE WAS PERSECUTED...Paul was acknowledging that these judaizers were offended by the cross...wanting circumcisio...

Galatians 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. They only do this to avoid persecution for the cross of Christ.

read the very next verse you cherry picker...”For not even those who are circumcised KEEP THE LAW”

Now which Law was Paul referring to?

They wanted Paul killed before that because they thought he was trying to trick them into saying they believed in Jesus so that Paul could drag them off to prison.

WHERE DO YOU MAKE THIS STUFF UP FROM?

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

He hadn’t written Colossians yet...but yes the gentiles were receiving the gospel and obeying...is why they are keeping the Sabbath...is why Jews were wanting to kill him because that is what he said would happen...gentiles accepting the gospel...the PROMISE they thought was only theirs...like the Sabbath...LOL

Hebrews 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

also NOT written at the time of the trial...and YES good example of a shadow being a good thing still to come...heaven

Hebrews 10:1 [ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

yup you found another mention of shadow...and so what does this have to do with the jews only having ONE CHARGE against Paul...His preaching the death and resurrection of the Hope of Israel to all nations...

James 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Oh I see what your are trying to do...separate Him from His PERFECT ETERNAL IMMUTABLE LAW...weak attempt...pathetic even...you attempt merely 9 out of 10

Galatians 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

The Galatians were sophisticated cosmopolitan ancient people with their own calendar and laws...Paul is clear “when you did not know God you served these” and he was worried they were returning “again to the weak and beggarly elements to again be in bondage” of their previous culture when the did not know God...they were not returning again to the TORAH...as they never kept the Torah...

The OLD COVENANT spoke of a time when a NEW COVENANT would be made and Stephen and Paul were trying to show that Jesus coming is the fulfillment of those prophecies.

and when does the contract come into power...AFTER it is written demonstrated signed and sealed and the testator dies...SO LIVE AS HE DID when HE DEMONSTRATED HIS NEW COVENANT...expecting winter times and Sabbath times long into the future...Matt 24:20

There is a difference in old covenant and new covenant so why are you fighting against it?

because a difference in covenants does NOT cancel The IMMUTABLE LAW of the ETERNAL 10...so Sabbath remains no matter how stubborn you are to claim it does not...

and the change to Sunday CAME OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE and by man his tradition and as part of what gives the catholic joy...Sunday mass...by its ecclesiastical authority...NOT in scripture...

to keep some identity to the OP and title of the thread...

 

[clefty]

THEY WEREN'T EVEN CIRCUMCISED!!!

And so? Is the Spirit wrong to have seen NO DISTINCTION? It saw them as circumcised just not the traditional part...but their hearts...

Are you calling Peter a liar too? As they received purified hearts by FAITH...

Why you judaizing expecting them to be circumcised first to be saved?

Why you look on the OUTSIDE...it is the INNER HEART Yah looks at...theirs WERE circumcised

Is why Peter said the Spirit made NO DISTINCTION...Peter the first pope and anointed messiah on earth? HA

Circumcision did NOT save...nor was it a requirement to be saved...a fleshy symbol to be part of Israel sure but was all of Nineveh circumcised...Nebuchadnezzar?

How many of Israel were circumcised and STILL were lost...

Abraham was chosen and obedient and wasnt circumcised until 99 years of age...but still was saved BY FAITH

Moses wasnt even circumcised and yet was saved BY FAITH...

How many others were saved from Egypt and not cut...

You and the judiazers make Circumcision salvific...NOT the OT...

Paul was clear “the one who is NOT circumcised but OBEYS THE LAW will condemn those who have the letter of law and are circumcised and yet break the law” Romans 2:27

break the law circumcised and you become like one who is NOT Romans 2:25

keep the law not circumcised and well...bingo!...you ARE Romans 2:26

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT SAVES?

there is only one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through THAT SAME FAITH Romans 3:30

Circumcision is NOTHING and uncircumcision is NOTHING....you ready GT?... KEEPING YAH’S COMMANDS is what counts...including the seventh day rest after six days of work...know as His Sabbath...not your every day rest sabbath...

And who WANTS to obey Him His Way? and not rationalize some clever loophole in rebellion? None but those with CIRCUMCISED hearts...you know...the inner jew as Paul and the recent Pope called it...

So NO DISTINCTION between believing goyim and believing jews...because they kept YAH’s COMMANDS...

A NEW CREATION...of the both of them goyim and jews...following Him His Ways...

Circumscision PROVES that FLESH PROFITS NOTHING...despite it being a supreme joy of catholics to feel the body of christ inside them disguised in the accidents of bread...

(I feel bad we hijacked this thread of the “joys of catholics” to clarify your sabbaths are NOT His but man’s traditions...also the joys of catholics)

 

[God's Truth]

again let no one judge you but the body of Christ...Paul knew there were jews about insisting gentile believers be circumcised Paul himself circumcised Timothy to shut them up..

No that is not why Paul circumcised Timothy.

Paul circumcised Timothy so that Timothy could go with Paul around the Jews to help him in the ministry.

read the very next verse you cherry picker...”For not even those who are circumcised KEEP THE LAW”

Now which Law was Paul referring to?

Circumcision is a WORKS OF THE LAW. Paul is saying that those who do the PURIFICATION works of the law don’t keep the law.

They wanted Paul killed before that because they thought he was trying to trick them into saying they believed in Jesus so that Paul could drag them off to prison.

WHERE DO YOU MAKE THIS STUFF UP FROM?

Acts 26:11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities.

Acts 22:19 ‘Lord,’ I answered, ‘they know very well that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in You. 20And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’ 21Then He said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”

 

[clefty]

Salvation and living saved is the same thing.

nope...

even those that left Egypt saved did NOT make it to the promised land...a material lesson for what happens spiritually...

Many are called few are chosen...

Once saved you receive salvation true...but then the owner’s manual...as you live to overcome...even Paul admitted he did what he hated...it’s a walk across the desert...to the promised land...not all make it who set out...

...and eating and drinking and observing special days means nothing.

Those things are not of the Spirit.

Those things are earthly things.

not for Salvation but good works for righteousness and obedience the fruit of the Spirit...which guides you INTO these works to make you MORE LIKE HIM less like the world or your former self

WHAT GRACE to be given material things to help teach us His and NOT HIS...clean and unclean...Holy and NOT Holy...now that we are saved...

First leave Egypt then receive the Law...and Spirit to guide and encourage and finally COMFORT

You are twisting again, for the Bible says we are to keep the law, the new law of Christ.

He and the Father are ONE...DO MY FATHER’S WILL...yup...trying to keep the Law...keeps YOU CLOSER TO HIM HIS WAY

No such thing.

We don't get saved unless we obey what Jesus taught.

Matt 24:20 He taught to pray the Sabbath be kept in future times of trouble...the ONLY commandment He instructed prayers that it specifically be kept into the future...the irony...

Jesus didn't teach 'do not carry on the Sabbath'.

sure He did...don’t carry a log in your eye

Jesus didn't teach 'put to death people who work on the Sabbath'.

same principle as the one caught in adultery...go ahead knowing you are judged for your sins too...IS WHY they didnt throw...LOL if they killed her then they should be killed too...eye for an eye...LOL

Besides they didnt have the man she did the crime with so it was a kangaroo court...

And telling the healed man to carry his bed home was NOT CARRYING RETAIL THROUGH THE GATE TO SELL ETC

Any child could discern that...and have MERCY rather that Sacrifice...but you stiff necked pharisees with your “GOTCHA YOU BROKE THE LAW” would have Him SIN...good job GT...fine job having Him break the Law...

Jesus didn't teach' get circumcised on the eighth day'.

HE WAS...so by demonstration...seen way more crazy body modifications than getting cut for no reason...besides it’s healthier...they say...

Jesus didn't teach 'don't eat unclean food', etc.

HE DEMONSTRATED...and taught unclean hearts allow unclean food to defile the temple...just like anger and lust break laws...the INNER JEW remember?

So after HIS DEMONSTRATION and teaching He signed and sealed the covenant but now after the death of the testator you wish to make changes...”Hey let’s eat dog...cuz we can”

Jesus came and fulfilled the law

I fulfilled the speed limit on the way home today...will still have to do it again tomorrow...can’t argue...”but a perfect driver fulfilled it so it no longer exists” to a cop pulling me over

and taught new things that made changes to the old law.

transferred the administration and ministry and jurisdiction and etc...of the IMMUTABLE LAW...

Here will make it easy for you...

WHICH OF THE 10 LAWS DID HE CHANGE?

A Sabbath day coming and going and coming and going IS ABOUT SHIFTING SHADOWS.

LOL...it remains a shadow...CONSTANT...you wish to make it shift from seventh day rest after six daze work...to every day rest slothfulness...where is the work 6 daze part? YOU wish to shift a seventh day rest after six daze work INTO A PERSON...that is shifty...but His Sabbath is constant there BEFORE sin...

What grace the Sabbath given before the fall before we needed it...sadly the catholics do NOT have that joy...nor do you...but reject it with jewish lies that He changed it...

Paul was worried because the JEWS talked the Galatians into doing the old law like OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS which was now WORTHLESS and getting CIRCUMCISED in the flesh.

asked and answered...the mighty GAULS had their own calendar and customs...NOT OF GOD...which Paul was afraid they were sliding back into AGAIN...not back into something they never did...duh

You Can’t do something AGAIN if you aint done it before...

Obeying the LAW DID SAVE it made one a CHILD OF GOD or not!

it kept saved it did NOT save...but merely pointed out sin the NEED OF HIM our salvation...goodness you are veiled just like the jews who taught the law saves...

What do you think being cast out is about?

Matthew 8:12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

YOU MISS that they were sons of the kingdom ALREADY and then cast out...

You can not be cast out if you were never in...duh

No such thing as being saved then obeying before being saved.

right...being saved once obeying to remain and overcome and endure...becoming MORE LIKE Him less like the world or your former self...NEVER SINLESS but sinning less

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those whohear the word of God and obey it."

so pray the Sabbath be kept in the future ok? DO IT...

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

yup...10 of 10 is His unchanging perfect will...

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

your every day Sabbath is not what He commanded or demonstrated...

No such thing as just have faith and no need to do anything else to get saved.

NEVER SAID THAT...but doing NOT what He wants is like a golden calf worship yeah dig? You think it is good...but well...

Of course it was taught that one MUST GET CIRCUMCISED in the flesh.

not to be saved...many were saved without it...many more were lost with it...

Getting circumcised meant being part of Israel...despite other nations around them doing it too...but oh well

I already explained it to you before that a woman must make sure her male children are circumcised. Zipporah is proof of that.

not for SALVATION...what part of that was spiritual...Moses was not circumcised...and?

...and the OLD LAW, OLD COVENANT said to be CIRCUMCISED in the FLESH and NOT TO EAT PORK and to observe the SABBATH.

The NEW LAW, the NEW COVENANT says it is no longer about those things.

here are they that keep the law

You deny what Jesus taught and what he does.

by their fruits you shall know...your fruits do NOT match the trunk you were grafted into...your every day Sabbaths might only be the beginning...

 

[God's Truth]

He hadn’t written Colossians yet...but yes the gentiles were receiving the gospel and obeying...is why they are keeping the Sabbath...is why Jews were wanting to kill him because that is what he said would happen...gentiles accepting the gospel...the PROMISE they thought was only theirs...like the Sabbath...LOL

No, the Gentiles were saved even though they did not keep the old law.


Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

 

[God's Truth]

also NOT written at the time of the trial...and YES good example of a shadow being a good thing still to come...heaven

No it is about Jesus.
The shadow was of Jesus.

yup you found another mention of shadow...and so what does this have to do with the jews only having ONE CHARGE against Paul...His preaching the death and resurrection of the Hope of Israel to all nations...

Paul and Peter and James preach about the shadows, such as the Sabbath day.

The Galatians were sophisticated cosmopolitan ancient people with their own calendar and laws...Paul is clear “when you did not know God you served these” and he was worried they were returning “again to the weak and beggarly elements to again be in bondage” of their previous culture when the did not know God...they were not returning again to the TORAH...as they never kept the Torah...

The Galatians were turning to the weak ways of OBSERVING DAYS.

OBSERVING DAYS is weak way since Jesus came.

and when does the contract come into power...AFTER it is written demonstrated signed and sealed and the testator dies...SO LIVE AS HE DID when HE DEMONSTRATED HIS NEW COVENANT...expecting winter times and Sabbath times long into the future...Matt 24:20

Jesus preached a new Way. We are to obey Jesus. It came into force with power at Pentecost.

because a difference in covenants does NOT cancel The IMMUTABLE LAW of the ETERNAL 10...so Sabbath remains no matter how stubborn you are to claim it does not...

It is NOT about what is written in STONE.
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2 Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory,

and the change to Sunday CAME OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE and by man his tradition and as part of what gives the catholic joy...Sunday mass...by its ecclesiastical authority...NOT in scripture...

to keep some identity to the OP and title of the thread...

lol

 

[clefty]

The moon and days are SHIFTING SHADOWS.

no...what you do with the Sabbath is shifty...and most texts here...like shift it from ARE shadows to WAS a shadow...form day to a Man...from one day to everyday...

Like you shift goal posts in your posting...

We NO LONGER go by shifting shadows.

you make things up you believe so not sure what you go by

That scripture is explaining that JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST.

ummm no...because greek is a very concise and complicated language and COULD have be written to say what you want it to say...”there remains a Jesusrest for the people of God” see? But it was a Sabbath keeping remains...since that time of Joshua...because verse 10 for he that has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His...

God rested after six days work...on the seventh day and made it Holy...that is resting as God did from His works...

Yup Greek had to borrow a Hebrew word to say Sabbath keeping...no need for that if it was a Jesusrest

You are warned not to be a bitter root springing up to defile others.

Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

Grace is given for regeneration and growth IN HIM to be come more LIKE HIM and to circumcised repentant hearts...not ones that change times and law...clever word tricks and traditions of man...grace to do His Will

Like when Adam and Eve where given grace with a skin covering and not killed themselves...they were to do works befitting repentance to be MORE LIKE it WAS WITH HIM

A bitter person resents what they have to do...LOL...tries to get out of it...others too...

“I hate my job” or “I hate my husband” yup...resent what they are to do...try to get out of it...

Bitter toxic people...just want FREEDOM and LIBERTY and do whatever whenever...selfish

Not what the MASTER expects...gratefully for what He has done...to make done in you...

You aren't reading it carefully, for Paul says Peter USED to eat with the Gentiles but NOW IS ACTING OUT OF LINE WITH THE TRUTH because he is NO LONGER eating with the Gentiles.

cuz of the jews...there was NO PROHIBITION in Torah to eat with gentiles just dont eat their unclean food...unclean because it was unclean pork or unclean because it was full of blood or strangled or offered to an idol...

The Gentile Romans knew they USED TO BE EXCLUDED AND WITHOUT GOD for NOT getting circumcised and for NOT adhering to the Jews' dietary laws---Paul is explaining that it is no more of those things.

LOL...you make up so much...if Paul is explaining that it is no more of that why are the Philippians still protesting they have to keep jewish law as it is NOT for Romans?

 

[Hilltrot]

Isn't one of the joys of Catholicism is knowing that when you die you'll go to Hell or Purgatory? (Heaven is only an option after Purgatory.)

Isn't that one of the fundamental beliefs of Catholicism?

 

[God's Truth]

no...what you do with the Sabbath is shifty...and most texts here...like shift it from ARE shadows to WAS a shadow...form day to a Man...from one day to everyday...

Like you shift goal posts in your posting...


We NO LONGER go by shifting shadows.
you make things up you believe so not sure what you go by

The shadows were what people had to go by they were teaching tools.

Days and New Moons are shifting shadows.

You really don’t understand that?

ummm no...because greek is a very concise and complicated language and COULD have be written to say what you want it to say...”there remains a Jesusrest for the people of God” see? But it was a Sabbath keeping remains...since that time of Joshua...because verse 10 for he that has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His...

God rested after six days work...on the seventh day and made it Holy...that is resting as God did from His works...

Yup Greek had to borrow a Hebrew word to say Sabbath keeping...no need for that if it was a Jesusrest

The Sabbath Rest

3For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.



So you are going to keep saying you don’t see it?

 

[God's Truth]

Grace is given for regeneration and growth IN HIM to be come more LIKE HIM and to circumcised repentant hearts...not ones that change times and law...clever word tricks and traditions of man...grace to do His Will

To be regenerated is to receive the Holy Spirit.
To receive the Holy Spirit is to be reconciled to God.
To be reconciled to God is to be reconciled to God and saved, to become His child.

No one is His child unless they believe and obey Jesus.

Like when Adam and Eve where given grace with a skin covering and not killed themselves...they were to do works befitting repentance to be MORE LIKE it WAS WITH HIM

Not killed themselves?

A bitter person resents what they have to do...LOL...tries to get out of it...others too...

“I hate my job” or “I hate my husband” yup...resent what they are to do...try to get out of it...

Bitter toxic people...just want FREEDOM and LIBERTY and do whatever whenever...selfish

Not what the MASTER expects...gratefully for what He has done...to make done in you...

A bitter ROOT springing up is about someone trying to get Christians to observe the old works of the old law, like special days. Not only are you a bitter root because you want people to obey something from the old works of the law, you also condemn people for not doing it. You defile many if you get them to try to be justified by an old works of the law.

cuz of the jews...there was NO PROHIBITION in Torah to eat with gentiles just dont eat their unclean food...unclean because it was unclean pork or unclean because it was full of blood or strangled or offered to an idol...

You are badly mistaken. The Jews were not to associate with the Gentiles not just because their food choices, but because they were not in the covenant with God and did not do all the purification works of the law, they were not circumcised.

LOL...you make up so much...if Paul is explaining that it is no more of that why are the Philippians still protesting they have to keep jewish law as it is NOT for Romans?

I don’t make up anything. I gave you scriptures.

 

[clefty]

No that is not why Paul circumcised Timothy.

Paul circumcised Timothy so that Timothy could go with Paul around the Jews to help him in the ministry.

right exactly what I said...circumcising Timmy was so he could help Paul cuz now the protesting jews would shut up

Circumcision is a WORKS OF THE LAW. Paul is saying that those who do the PURIFICATION works of the law don’t keep the law.

which law...if you are circumcised you have kept the works of the law duh...Paul was referring to the 10...which even though they are circumcised they still didnt keep the 10...or maybe they still ate pig...no matter- Paul was clear circumcision does NOT mean you actually keep the Law...more broadly it does NOT SAVE one

Acts 26:11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities.

Acts 22:19 ‘Lord,’ I answered, ‘they know very well that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in You. 20And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’ 21Then He said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”

No where is that saying what you infer it to say: that Paul wanted to trick the Sanhedrin at his trial Acts 22 into saying they worshipped Jesus so he could kill them...they were there because of one charge: he taught One resurrected...and NOT that he taught Sabbath was changed to every day we can eat dogs now...because he did NOT teach that...

 

[clefty]

No, the Gentiles were saved even though they did not keep the old law.

If they kept the old law they wouldn’t NEED saving...LOL

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

cherry picking again...Start at verse 11 where they DO become circumcised by Christ...buried in baptism NOT JUST SPRINKLED as the joys of catholics do...and were made alive in Him...and as you say faith AND obey so let no one judge you your keeping new moons and Sabbath but the body of christ...

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

yup verse 19 now made fellow citizens of Israel...so just like the OT...ONE LAW for native and foreigner alike...

when one becomes a citizen of a country YOU KEEP ITS LAWS...don’t try to avoid them with clever talk...or claim its not for you...

”oh no we don’t need to keep the laws...they were fulfilled by the founders” LOL

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

WERE enemies...

Not only did you cherry pick but you cut the cherry IN HALF...

FINISH THE VERSE

”yet now He has reconciled” to what look like the rest of the world or your former self or to be MORE LIKE HIM HIS WAY HIS FAITH

if you kept reading..”.to be HOLY BLAMELESS IRREPROACHABLE in His sight...IF INDEED you continue in the faith grounded and steadfast NOT moved away from the hope of the gospel which you have heard...”

you with your every day Sabbath let’s eat dog...have moved away...you have NOT continued in the faith OF Yahushua...but have made your own golden calf to worship Him with...

 

[clefty]

No it is about Jesus.
The shadow was of Jesus.

It is clear Paul wrote Col 2:17 a shadow of good things TO COME...when Paul wrote this Jesus had already came and went...

but promised to COME BACK TO TAKE US and restore us to the Father...

see? Shadows of good things STILL TO COME...still trumpets...still atONEment...still the festival of booths when we tabernacle with Him before our return to new heaven new earth...HalleluYah

Paul and Peter and James preach about the shadows, such as the Sabbath day.

not even related to what I said about ONE CHARGE against Paul...not that he taught Sabbath was done away with

because as you say Paul Peter and James both preach and KEPT the Sabbath...as it was expected of Him...they also still had winter as also He expected

The Galatians were turning to the weak ways of OBSERVING DAYS.

OBSERVING DAYS is weak way since Jesus came.

they were observing the calendar they had from GAUL...returning again...you cant go back again to doing something you never did...

Jesus preached a new Way. We are to obey Jesus. It came into force with power at Pentecost.

RIGHT EXACTLY MY POINT...they obeyed KEPT PENTECOST STILL even after the cross...DBR and ascension of Jesus...imagine that...also Sabbaths and Passover and not eating unclean food

It is NOT about what is written in STONE.
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

DUH...Paul was writing of a people faithful during his time not Sinai when they received stone tablets of the 10

2 Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory,

A glorious ministry of death...still not as glorious as the ministry of the Spirit...

tell me...thou shalt not kill...when does that become a ministry of death? It SAVES you from others who would kill you...

it becomes a ministry of death when broken...as with any law...”no parking” is awesome as it keeps the street clear but if you park there it becomes a ministry of death...lol

lol

Ha? hope you were laughing about our “ hijacking “ this thread

and not how Sabbath was moved to Sunday by the tradition of man outside of scripture...by those like you wishing to change both TIMES and Law...

That is not funny...

 

[clefty]

The shadows were what people had to go by they were teaching tools.

Days and New Moons are shifting shadows.

You really don’t understand that?

just not the shifting shadows slander...

of course they were teaching tools...but more...they were Yah’s Own calendar...when His year started...when to plant when to harvest...what month it was...all necessary to learn of Him Our Creator...His Ways...

Festival days developed to teach just how peculiar His people are from the rest of the world...How SET ASIDE...made HOLY...just like one day was...the Sabbath...given to man not just jews...and BEFORE the fall

What grace...rest before needing it...

Yup teaching tools...just like a tutor...

So tell me, when you learn from a tutor that 2+2=4 when you finally graduate does 2+2 now =5? or the color red? or anything other than 4? Of course NOT!

You keep the law of arithmetic as taught by the tutor...even when you graduate...or especially when you do


But you and yours sadly upon graduation abrogate all you learned about His Law and follow man’s ways...

You ignore seventh day Sabbath is Holy...start the year in January...keep Christmas and Easter...which christendom isn't even on the same daze for those LOL

What a mess...Peter the first father...and anointed messiah? (For those joyous catholics)said rather we follow Yah and not man’s traditions...

“Copy me” Paul affirms “as I copy christ”

The Sabbath Rest

3For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.



So you are going to keep saying you don’t see it?

Well when you use a translation that leaves it out it makes it hard to see...

“The Anchor Bible Dictionary states regarding the meaning of sabbatismos:

“The words ‘sabbath rest’ translate the [Greek] noun sabbatismos, a unique word in the NT. This term appears also in Plutarch … for sabbath observance, and in four post-canonical Christian writings … for seventh day ‘sabbath celebration’ ” (p. 855, emphasis added).

The same resource continues with an explanation of the context:

“The author of Hebrews affirms in Heb[rews] 4:3-11, through the joining of quotations from Gen[esis] 2:2 and Ps[alm] 95:7, that the promised ‘sabbath rest’ still anticipates a complete realization ‘for the people of God’ in the … end-time which had been inaugurated with the appearance of Jesus [Hebrews] 1:1-3 …

“The experience of ‘sabbath rest’ points to a present ‘rest’ (katapausis) reality in which those ‘who have believed are entering’ (4:3) and it points to a future ‘rest’ reality (4:11). Physical sabbath-keeping on the part of the new covenant believer as affirmed by ‘sabbath rest’ epitomizes cessation from ‘works’ (4:10) in commemoration of God’s rest at creation (4:4 = Gen[esis] 2:2) and manifests faith in the salvation provided by Christ.

“Heb[rews] 4:3-11 affirms that physical ‘sabbath rest’ (sabbatismos) is the weekly outward manifestation of the inner experience of spiritual rest (katapausis) in which the final … rest is … experienced already ‘today’ (4:7). Thus ‘sabbath rest’ combines in itself creation-commemoration, salvation-experience, and eschaton [end-time]-anticipation as the community of faith moves forward toward the final consummation of total restoration and rest” (pp. 855-856).

In summary, The Anchor Bible Dictionary decisively and correctly concludes that sabbatismos means keeping the seventh-day Sabbath. Therefore, Hebrews 4:9 stresses the need to continue to keep the Sabbath in a New Covenant context, even though the day also embodies all it meant under the Old Covenant.

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...-people-of-god

So NOW I see it...cuz it’s all greek to me...LOL


Oh and here is somethin on clean and unclean:

http://recipesforlifewithdrbeth.com/...aboutclean.php

She would be good reading for you tomorrow if you are resting also on the seventh day...lol

But both of these are prolly NOT the joys of catholics...or you...hmmm

 

[clefty]

To be regenerated is to receive the Holy Spirit.

yes to do a work in us to make us MORE like Him His ways

To receive the Holy Spirit is to be reconciled to God.

is why we strive to be HOLY...do Holy things like keep a day Holy...not make holy because it already is...

To be reconciled to God is to be reconciled to God and saved, to become His child.

doing His will as a family member brother of Yahushua grafted into Him baring His fruits...a fellow citizen of Israel...

Then there is you...claiming every day Holy...all meat Clean...God is in all things too?

No one is His child unless they believe and obey Jesus.

yup...here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...now which faith was His? Buddha? Hindu? Muslim? The joy of catholics?

Not killed themselves?

yes Adam and Eve were spared by Mercy and Grace with the shedding of blood for skins to cover them with...Grace was given like the garden for them to KEEP...like the Sabbath for them to KEEP...like the Law for them to KEEP...Grace is to be kept but can be lost...

As with history’s first woman you like EVE ADD to the word...Yah did NOT say they could not touch the fruit EVE did...her zealousness had her ADD to what Yah said...zealousness comes from undisciplined pride

A bitter ROOT springing up is about someone trying to get Christians to observe the old works of the old law, like special days. Not only are you a bitter root because you want people to obey something from the old works of the law, you also condemn people for not doing it. You defile many if you get them to try to be justified by an old works of the law.

NOT to be saved or be justified but to KEEP that Grace because they already are citizens of Israel...by FAITH...so therefore obey His house rules...

You are badly mistaken. The Jews were not to associate with the Gentiles not just because their food choices, but because they were not in the covenant with God and did not do all the purification works of the law, they were not circumcised.

LOL...the Sabbath commandment itself teaches association with gentiles as Sabbath was given to the strangers with them...how else were they to be a light to all nations...His House be for ALL nations? Is exactly why the pharisees wanted to kill Paul because he wanted to associate the Hope of Israel with the gentiles...

You have it exactly opposite of what the OT taught...and just like the jew of the NT expected...that makes sense as you believe their false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered to them...Luke was clear that had poor Stephen been teaching Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered then the jews would NOT be false witnesses Acts 6:13-14...and you would be correct...but Stephen did NOT teach that thus it was jewish false witness that said he did...

I don’t make up anything. I gave you scriptures.

LOL...yes like the catholics gave us the Bible...with the wrapper still on it...unopened unused...lol

TGIF though right?

That feeling you get with TGIF is your body’s way of saying it wants a Sabbath tomorrow...get it?

Sabbath...remember it...not just for jews...but for man...a gift...such grace...HalleluYah

not a joy of catholics though...or you