TweetyBird
New member
But do you believe the one new man is the body of the new covenant?
Do think the church in the wilderness was part of the body of Christ? Was Abraham? Isaac? Jacob? Moses? David? Are they not one with us in Christ?
ECT The House of Israel and the House of Judah Will Be a Blessing
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
But do you believe the one new man is the body of the new covenant?
Do think the church in the wilderness was part of the body of Christ? Was Abraham? Isaac? Jacob? Moses? David? Are they not one with us in Christ?
TweetyBird
New member
The new covenant is the shed blood of Christ - all those in Him are in the new covenant. That is clear and simple Scripture
Eph 2
13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Heb 3
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6 but Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Romans 11:27
for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Matthew 26:28
for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
2 Corinthians 3:6
who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Heb 9
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Right Divider
Body part
Thanks so much for this lengthy showing of the fact that you do not know what the new covenant is.The new covenant is the shed blood of Christ - all those in Him are in the new covenant. That is clear and simple Scripture
The BLOOD itself is NOT the covenant.
Jer 31:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Next time try consulting the scripture first, instead of your confused commentaries.
beloved57
Well-known member
That promise has nothing to do with Israel according to the flesh, Abrahams natural descendants, no more so it has to do new Mexico.
TweetyBird
New member
I quoted Scripture, not commentary. Without the covenant/testament of the shedding of blood there is no salvation.
Matthew 26:28
for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
Heb 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed you did. You quoted a confused mishmash of things that you've learned from someone else that was confused.
The body of Christ is saved by the blood APART from the covenant that God will make with ISRAEL.
Apparently you cannot read Jeremiah (or the exact quote of it in Hebrews 8).
Go read where Paul tells us that we are "made nigh by the BLOOD" and NOT a covenant.
TweetyBird
New member
I quoted Scripture. No one can be saved unless it's through a covenant of blood. That is Jesus Christ.
Apparently, you do not understand that Jer 31 was fulfilled in Christ and that the new covenant is also with the Gentiles.
Which speaks of the blood of Christ for the remission of sins. Without that Covenant of Blood, one is not saved.
That is the new covenant. There is no covenant without the shedding of blood. The type is the old covenant - the shadow of what is to come by the blood of animals which testified of the covenant of blood in Christ.
The same blood that brought Israel nigh unto God is the same blood that brought Gentiles nigh unto God. One new man. It's not the Jews have a new covenant and the Gentiles were left out. What covenant are we in if not in the new covenant? There has to be a covenant or we are dead in sins. Read Heb 9 again.
Right Divider
Body part
Anyone can quote scripture. Just pick twenty random verses.
That's pretty much what you're doing.
Continued confusion.
Nope.... nonsense.
Wrong. Paul says we are made nigh by the BLOOD and NOT the covenant.
Nope.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament,(covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament,(covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus said that the new covenant was in His blood.
Luke 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Paul, speaking to the Corinthians aka Gentiles, quoting Luke:
1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed He did. And when He said it said it, He was talking to MEN OF ISRAEL.
So that's not too hard to understand. They are the ones that God will make the NEW COVENANT with.
In this PARTICULAR scripture, Paul is repeating what Jesus told THOSE MEN OF ISRAEL.
TweetyBird
New member
I see. So the blood He shed was just for Israel? How are your sins forgiven - through whose blood?
Then why did Jesus tell them to go into all the world and to all nations? And why do we see Gentiles practicing the Lord's Supper in 1 Cor?
Paul is instructing the Gentile Corinthians the purpose behind the Lord's Supper, how THEY should be eating bread and drinking wine to remember Christ's death. He was speaking to THEM about the proper way to celebrate it like Jesus said to. Maybe you should read that chapter again to refresh your memory.
Right Divider
Body part
Nope.... typical false accusation.
My LORD Jesus Christ.
We can ALL celebrate what the LORD Jesus Christ did for us.
This does NOT cancel the scripture nor change it and the meaning of the covenants that God made with Israel.
I understand it all perfectly well.
It is you that needs to learn from the scripture without those blinders that you wear.
TweetyBird
New member
A question based on your position. If the blood of Christ is in the new covenant, then if that same blood saves you from sin, it's the same new covenant.
Yes, the new covenant like He taught the disciples who taught the rest of the world. It's what Jesus told them to do.
The covenant with Israel was the Mosaic Law, ratified in the blood of animals. Without that blood of that covenant, there was no forgiveness of sins. That is why a new covenant was given so that blood of Christ would forgive all sins. You are arguing yourself right into a corner.
It was prophesied that Gentiles would be included as the people of God. They need a covenant with Him for that to happen. So what covenant would that be?
The Scripture is clear - the blood of Christ is in the new covenant. The blood of Christ is the sure promise. Like Paul stated in Gal 4 - the new covenant is the New Jerusalem and that is Christ Jesus. I am going to be there, aren't you?
1 John 5
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Right Divider
Body part
Completely fallacious "reasoning" there TB.
The new covenant is between ISRAEL and GOD.... just like the OLD one was.
The blood that the LORD Jesus Christ shed for ME is PLENTY ENOUGH without any covenant.
That is what the Bible teaches, but you want to fixate on Christ's earthly ministry to ISRAEL.
The blood and the new covenant are NOT synonymous, as you and others try to FORCE them to be.
Gods dealing with and through Israel were INTERRUPTED by their failure and their FALL.
Rom 11:11 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Go try to find that in prophecy.
Once AGAIN, the blood and the new covenant at not the SAME things.
You have "covenantitis".
Where do you get such an UNBIBLICAL idea?
The blood is NOT the covenant and the covenant is NOT the blood.
NOW the new covenant is a CITY? You're out of your mind. :kookoo:
TweetyBird
New member
And what does this covenant consist of? You did not answer that yet.
The covenant, according to Jer 31 is the forgiveness of sins. So if your sins are forgiven, you are in the new covenant.
No, you are fixating on Jesus's earthly ministry to Israel. I am fixated on the fact that He is the Savior to the whole world through His shed blood which is in the New Covenant.
Because every time the new covenant comes up, it's by the blood of Christ. Read Heb 8 - blood, covenant - inseparable.
Are you saying that Paul just pulled that out of thin air?
You have yet to explain what the new covenant is, and don't forget about the blood
Paul said it, not me. Gal 4. Read it for yourself. That is because Jesus is the New Jerusalem, spiritually. That is why He is the new covenant and His blood is in it, per His own words.
Right Divider
Body part
At this point we are talking about the WHO and not the WHAT.
The WHO is crystal CLEAR:
Jer 31:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Until you believe that, there is NO point in going any further about WHAT it is.
Note that HEBREWS confirms this by quoting it exactly.
Once AGAIN, you present a FALLACIOUS argument. It's called a NON-SEQUITUR. Feel free to learn about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)
Just because forgiveness of Israel's sins is part of their covenant does NOT mean that it's the ONLY way that God will forgive sins.
His blood ALSO works WITHOUT a covenant for US, the BODY OF CHRIST.
Once AGAIN, the blood is NOT LIMITED to Israel's covenant.
Always the FALSE accusations.
Once you understand the WHO, we can get to the WHAT.You have yet to explain what the new covenant is, and don't forget about the blood
Note how Paul said "by the blood of Christ" and NOT by any covenant.
Eph 2:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Get away from the false teachers that are leading you to confusion and believe the Bible.
The New Jerusalem is a CITY that comes DOWN from heaven. It is called the BRIDE OF THE LAMB.
So, apparently, you think that the LAMB is going to marry HIMSELF; or marry a covenant.
You are soooooooooooooo confused.
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turbosixx
New member
In our talks about baptism, I've come to realize this might be the root of our differences.
What makes a man a Jew or Gentile?
There you go with your misread of Romans 2 again :chuckle: