Theology Club: The Hebrew Epistles and Where Do They Fit?

[glorydaz]

No, silly. Not all Rome! Only those called of Jesus Christ whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world:

"Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:6-8).​

Why are you having such a hard time understanding these simple things?

Gee, I don't know, Jerry. I must not have a good theologian to teach me like you do.

Do you deny that Paul was telling the believers to put on Christ? The Greek word translated "put ye on" is in the Imperative Mood:

"The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearer" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

Paul is commanding the believers to put on Christ. I have already told you how I think it should be done. How do you put on Christ?

Oh, I forgot!

You don't put on Christ.

Right, I don't put on Christ. I was baptized by the Spirit INTO CHRIST when I believed. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.​

I was created in Christ Jesus when I believed the Gospel. Eph. 2:10

I actually believe what the word says.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

And I have complete faith in the One who performs His work in me. My trust is totally in Him, and not in my own ability to put off the works of darkness or to put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

I'm beginning to think you're a worker bee, Jerry. :think:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I was baptized by the Spirit INTO CHRIST when I believed. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Silly, the following words are addressed to those who are already saved and whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world:

"The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Ro.13:12-13).​

These people had previously believed and had been baptized into the Body. So Paul is not telling them to do that, as you imagine. You are up to your old tricks again and they are getting old and boring. You said that 1 John 1:9 is written to unbelievers even though John tells us exactly who received his first epistle:

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Jn.2:12).​

And I will ask again. Can you name even one recognized theologian who agrees with you that the words at 1 John 1:9 are addressed to unbelievers?

 

[musterion]

Never thought I'd see standard Acts 2 arguments coming from a supposed MAD. Man, things have gotten strange.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Never thought I'd see standard Acts 2 arguments coming from a supposed MAD. Man, things have gotten strange.

What I'm hearing from those who call themselves "Mid-Acts" is the same nonsense which comes from the Acts 28 camp. They teach that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ even though they have no evidence from the Scriptures to support such a ridiculous idea.

And so far no one who calls themselves Mid-Act and teach the same thing has given any evidence either. They think that their thinking is so far advanced that they don't need any evidence from the Scriptures to support their ideas.

Bullinger said that it is true so that is all they need, proving that they put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than they do in what the Scriptures actually say. They adopted Bullinger's view and rejected the view on this subject of Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam.

I wish they would call themselves Bullingerites instead of Mid Act because they are an embarrassment to Mid Acts.

Just like musterion. Ask him for any Scriptual evidence which supports the idea invented by Bullinger that only some of the first century Jewish believers were in the Body and he has none.

To top it off, these same peoiple run and hide from the fact that the Hebrew epistles speak of an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and that can only mean that they, just like all the members of the Body, were waiting to be raptured. These Neo-Mads have no answer so they change the subject as fast as they can.

It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with these folks because they do not think that their ideas must be supported by the Scriptures.

 

[musterion]

What I'm hearing from those who call themselves "Mid-Acts" is the same nonsense which comes from the Acts 28 camp. They teach that only some of the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ even though they have no evidence from the Scriptures to support such a ridiculous idea.

And so far no one who calls themselves Mid-Act and teach the same thing has given any evidence either. They think that their thinking is so far advanced that they don't need any evidence from the Scriptures to support their ideas.

Bullinger said that it is true so that is all they need, proving that they put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than they do in what the Scriptures actually say. They adopted Bullinger's view and rejected the view on this subject of Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam.

I wish they would call themselves Bullingerites instead of Mid Act because they are an embarrassment to Mid Acts.

Just like musterion. Ask him for any Scriptual evidence which supports the idea invented by Bullinger that only some of the first century Jewish believers were in the Body and he has none.

To top it off, these same peoiple run and hide from the fact that the Hebrew epistles speak of an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and that can only mean that they, just like all the members of the Body, were waiting to be raptured. These Neo-Mads have no answer so they change the subject as fast as they can.

It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with these folks because they do not think that their ideas must be supported by the Scriptures.

You're like Danoh. You use much speaking to make big claims but don't answer simple questions.

How can someone be saved and safe and Christ, and yet risk not seeing the Lord for not being peaceable or holy enough?

 

[glorydaz]

Silly, the following words are addressed to those who are already saved and whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world:

"The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Ro.13:12-13).​

These people had previously believed and had been baptized into the Body. So Paul is not telling them to do that, as you imagine. You are up to your old tricks again and they are getting old and boring. You said that 1 John 1:9 is written to unbelievers even though John tells us exactly who received his first epistle:

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Jn.2:12).​

And I will ask again. Can you name even one recognized theologian who agrees with you that the words at 1 John 1:9 are addressed to unbelievers?

Ask me as many times as you like, Jerry. I will never agree with you that believers walk in darkness, and I will never agree that believers put on the Lord Jesus Christ by setting their affections on things above.

So, my response to you is that you are more boring than I am.

Besides which....you are not setting your affections on things above when all you seem capable of doing is charging believers with committing works of darkness...wantonness, drunkenness and rioting. Doesn't sound much like new creatures to me.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Besides which....you are not setting your affections on things above when all you seem capable of doing is charging believers with committing works of darkness...wantonness, drunkenness and rioting. Doesn't sound much like new creatures to me.

Your ideas are ridiculous because according to you even though Paul accused Peter of not walking according to the truth of the gospel you say that he was walking in the light!

You have lost touch with reality!

 

[musterion]

How can someone be saved and safe in Christ, including being justified from all things and granted full and free access to God (per Paul), and yet risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness or holiness enough (per Hebrews)?

How can one risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness and holiness, when Paul says the believers holiness is actually Christ's, and peace is a fruit of His Spirit?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How can someone be saved and safe in Christ, including being justified from all things and granted full and free access to God (per Paul), and yet risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness or holiness enough (per Hebrews)?

So you don't think that those who received the Hebrew epistles had accesss to God despite what they are told here?:

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).​

Of course the word "holiest" is not in regard to the most holy place in the Temple because only the Levitical high priest had access there, and only once a year. The word "holiest" at Hebrews 10:19-20 refers to the dwelling place of the LORD. And the "throne" in the following verse is speaking of the heavenly throne:

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).​

I get an idea that you have never even read the book of Hebrews since you remain ignorant about these facts.

 

[musterion]

Still dodging straight questions? You've become a troll. Don't know how are why but that is how you seem now.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Still dodging straight questions? You've become a troll. Don't know how are why but that is how you seem now.

I just thought that I would show you that they had access to the heavenly throne but you don't care.

Who else but those in the Body have access to the Most Holy in heaven?

You think that you rightly divide but all you prove is that you can't tell the difference between heavenly things and earthly things.

Pitiful!

 

[glorydaz]

Your ideas are ridiculous because according to you even though Paul accused Peter of not walking according to the truth of the gospel you say that he was walking in the light!

You have lost touch with reality!

You sure do a lot of accusing. How about you tell me exactly what Peter did to be accused by Paul of not walking according to the truth of the Gospel? Tell me EXACTLY what it was....specifically.

I'll wait.

 

[glorydaz]

I get an idea that you have never even read the book of Hebrews since you remain ignorant about these facts.

I get an idea you are having some personal problems in your life, Jerry, that you have become so divisive of late.

 

[glorydaz]

I just thought that I would show you that they had access to the heavenly throne but you don't care.

Who else but those in the Body have access to the Most Holy in heaven?

You think that you rightly divide but all you prove is that you can't tell the difference between heavenly things and earthly things.

Pitiful!

All men now have access through Christ's death on the cross, but not all men are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You sure do a lot of accusing. How about you tell me exactly what Peter did to be accused by Paul of not walking according to the truth of the Gospel? Tell me EXACTLY what it was....specifically.

No matter exactly what Peter did Paul said that he was to be blamed. But according to you Peter was walking in the light even though Paul said that he was to be blamed. You make no sense at all. According to you he deserved no blame because he didn't sin.

According to you even though Paul said that Peter was NOT walking according to the truth of the gospel you stand reason on its head by saying that Peter was walking in the light.

Your argument is not with me but instead with Paul. And you lose that argument with your nonsense.

And to make it worse, even though John's first epistle was written to those who had already had their sins forgiven (1 Jn.2:12) you want us to throw our reason to the wind and accept your fairy tale that 1 John 1:9 was written to unbelievers.

And when asked to just name one recognized theologian who agrees with your silly idea you have continued to come up empty. I am tryng to pinpoint what cult you follow but so far you won't even give me a clue as to which one it is.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All men now have access through Christ's death on the cross, but not all men are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

We know that the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13) and there is nothing which even hints that only some of them were baptized into the Body. According to you the authors of the Hebrew epistles were not baptized into the Body even though other Jewish believers were.

So give me the Scriptures which you think prove that only some of them were members of the Body and others were not. I have already shown from the Scriptures that those who received the Hebrew epistles were eagerly waiting for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only those in the Body were waiting for that appearance. And so far you have not been able to answer those facts.

Why not?

I get an idea you are having some personal problems in your life, Jerry, that you have become so divisive of late.

I get this sort of nonsense all the time. When someone cannot answer the message in their desperation they attack the messenger.

 

[DAN P]

Hi and why can you not explain what Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 and are there differences between the passages ?

If you can not explain them , then you are blind OR will you be DESPERATE and not answer ??

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

We know that the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13) and there is nothing which even hints that only some of them were baptized into the Body. According to you the authors of the Hebrew epistles were not baptized into the Body even though other Jewish believers were.

Nothing there about being baptized into the body of Christ.

So give me the Scriptures which you think prove that only some of them were members of the Body and others were not. I have already shown from the Scriptures that those who received the Hebrew epistles were eagerly waiting for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only those in the Body were waiting for that appearance. And so far you have not been able to answer those facts.

The proof is in what is NOT there. It's absence alone is glaring.

Why not?

Because it is a NEW THING....a new creature.

I get this sort of nonsense all the time. When someone cannot answer the message in their desperation they attack the messenger.

Nope, for awhile there you were actually able to abide disagreements. Now, you're locked and loaded on what looks like a bad case of spiritual pride.

 

[glorydaz]

No matter exactly what Peter did Paul said that he was to be blamed. But according to you Peter was walking in the light even though Paul said that he was to be blamed. You make no sense at all. According to you he deserved no blame because he didn't sin.

It most certainly does matter. You're accusing Peter of no longer walking in the light, based on your personal reading of a verse. Your interpretation is causing you to err from the truth. In fact, you err when you accuse members of the body of Christ of sinning, since we have been delivered from the law.

Perhaps you are no longer walking in the light. Apparently you think those in Christ can move in and out of Him like He is a revolving door.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you can not explain them , then you are blind OR will you be DESPERATE and not answer ??

Dan, I have answered it many times and you continue to answer my question. Look at 1 Corinthians 12:13 and answer my question. Were Jews baptized into the Body of Christ?