The Gospel Verses Predestination

[God's Truth]

Read Luke 7:1-9. There was a man, he was NOT a Jew, but rather he was a Centurian, a Roman Gentile. The Jews said to Jesus that the Centurian man DESERVES to have Jesus heal someone for him. The Centurian was not even a Jew! Yet Jesus said concerning the Centurian, that he had not found SUCH GREAT FAITH EVEN IN ISRAEL. How could the Centurian man have faith yet? According to Calvinists, faith only comes AFTER Jesus saves a person and they become born again. GOD HAD NOT YET ALLOWED NON-JEWS, GENTILES, TO HAVE SALVATION YET.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvinists say that humans cannot believe on their own without God giving us the Holy Spirit first. They say that because they claim we are so totally depraved that we cannot understand enough to believe in God, or understand anything of God. However, what do the scriptures say? This is what the scriptures say about understanding— Lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths (see Proverbs 3:5-6). We do not even have to have understanding!

 

[God's Truth]

Calvinists make God responsible for the sin of the world, and that just is not so. People are responsible for their own sins. The world’s sin is unbelief in Jesus. If God made all people unable to ever believe— ever, then how can it be the world’s sin? Read what Jesus says in John 16:8, 9, this scripture explains to us that the world’s sin is unbelief in Jesus.

John 16:8, 9 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;

 

[God's Truth]

The bible tells us that God hardened Pharaoh. Pharaoh was hardened for a reason. Calvinists like to use the scriptures of people being hardened as proof of Calvinism, but those passages really disprove Calvinism. Just the fact that some were hardened that alone should show a Calvinist that God did not create people without the ability to believe. Do Calvinists think that God created people unable to believe from the beginning, but that was not good enough so that God had the need to harden them more down the road?

God knows everything. God knows our hearts. Yes, many Jews did not believe, they were hardened; they were hardened so that the Gentiles might obtain salvation. Paul says about the Jews, “And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” (Romans 11:23) There we see too that there is a choice. Paul says, “And if they do not persist in unbelief.”

Hebrews 3:13 tells us that we too can be hardened! Hebrews 3:13, we are told to exhort one another daily lest any of you be hardened.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvinists say that none of us has the capability to believe and that we are totally depraved, if that is so, then why does the bible say God searches? Here are many passages that tell us God searches. What is God searching for if all are totally depraved?

1 Chronicles 28:9 “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.

Psalm 7:9 O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts, bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.

Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man; it searches out his inmost being.

John 4:23 yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Psalm 34:4 I sought the LORD, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears.

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Calvinists teach that all are totally depraved. Again, what is God searching us for if all are totally depraved anyways? In addition, look at these passages.

Matthew 18:3 Jesus says to become like little children. He would not tell us to do this if children were truly born totally depraved.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

If total depravity is true, then there is no such thing as “good and honest” hearts.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Most of the world has never heard of Jesus. They have not been given a parachute. Are they held responsible for their sin?

Yes.

Even an isolated farmer in the middle of India, or isolated man in Africa has the ability to recognize that there is a God, and that there is a difference between right and wrong.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For there is no partiality with God.For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:1-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:1-16&version=NKJV

Even those who are without law (ie, not a Jew) and without knowledge of Jesus Christ can know God.

God put eternity in our hearts. He also wrote his law on our hearts. And the heavens declare the glory of God. So unless someone has been living under a rock all their life, they are aware of God's existence.

Your analogy falls far short from what the Bible teaches.

No analogy is perfect. Not even mine.

Where we will agree is in the truth that Christians are called to Go into the world, teach, make disciples and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

You know what's interesting about what you just said?

You made baptism a requirement for salvation, contradicting your own position that only God saves. You, in quoting scripture, unintentionally said that in order for a person to get saved, they have to be baptized.

That was true for anyone who wanted to come to know God prior to Acts 9. But ever since then, it's been Romans 10:9, not Matthew 28:19-20

Any position that contradicts itself inherently cannot be valid.

 

[God's Truth]

Calvinists say we all hate God and are His enemy, and in this state of hate, God gives us the Holy Spirit to cause us to believe. We do not receive God’s Spirit if we hate God! We receive God and Jesus’ Spirit when we love God and obey.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Calvinists say we have to do nothing, not even believe. That is not biblical. The bible clearly and plainly says that we have to believe. We have to obey.

We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. Acts 5:32. God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14. In Acts 26:17 Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Read what Paul says in Romans 16:25-27. Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Paul says that God made the prophetic writings (the prophetic writings from the Old Testament), known so that all nations might believe and obey. So again, the word of God tells us that faith comes from hearing.

 

[God's Truth]

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6.

Is hunger and thirst a work? To hunger and to thirst is a condition of a person’s spirit. If it is as Calvinists say, that our spirit has nothing to do with whether or not we have salvation, then what does it matter if we hunger or thirst?

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30.

Is weariness a work?

“Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” Romans 10:11. Is trust a work?

“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:13. Is calling a work?

Calvinists say we have to do nothing at all, not even believe. That is nonsensical, to say the least. We have to do that which God says to do!

In Luke 24:4, Jesus opened the minds of the apostles, so they could understand the scriptures. In Acts 16:14, Jesus opened the heart of Lydia so she could respond to Paul’s message. Jesus opened minds and hearts to people who first believed! Jesus did not do this to make them believe, they already believed. Lydia was already a worshiper of God, and Jesus’ disciples already believed in Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

God draws us with lovingkindness, Jeremiah 31:3. God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked, see Luke 6:35

The following are scriptures that show a loving God, and that God calls and some do not answer. They resist God.

But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.” Romans 10:21.

God held his hands out. The people were obstinate to God holding his hands out.

Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations–

Does it make sense that God would hold out His hands to people if He made it impossible for them to come to Him? Calvinism is insanity. Pagans CHOOSE to do that in which they do.

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do–living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

God held out His hands to disobedient and obstinate people. They rejected God. It is their sin, their sin of rejecting God. They rejected God on their own and will be judged and punished for that. When God judges them and punishes them, it will be the sin of rejecting God. If God made them without the capability to believe, then they would be innocent.

Calvinists say that God created all people with the inability to choose Him, yet in these next scriptures, it shows that God wants the wicked to turn from their ways. Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to?

“But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”

Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes.

Even an isolated farmer in the middle of India, or isolated man in Africa has the ability to recognize that there is a God, and that there is a difference between right and wrong.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For there is no partiality with God.For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:1-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:1-16&version=NKJV

Even those who are without law (ie, not a Jew) and without knowledge of Jesus Christ can know God.

God put eternity in our hearts. He also wrote his law on our hearts. And the heavens declare the glory of God. So unless someone has been living under a rock all their life, they are aware of God's existence.



No analogy is perfect. Not even mine.



You know what's interesting about what you just said?

You made baptism a requirement for salvation, contradicting your own position that only God saves. You, in quoting scripture, unintentionally said that in order for a person to get saved, they have to be baptized.

That was true for anyone who wanted to come to know God prior to Acts 9. But ever since then, it's been Romans 10:9, not Matthew 28:19-20

Any position that contradicts itself inherently cannot be valid.

No, I didn't make baptism a requirement salvation. I shared the Great Commission, which tells us to go, make disciples, teach and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere do I mention or encourage baptismal regeneration. I'm not sure how you ran down that rabbit hole.
Humans can know there is a Creator by observing nature, but they cannot know Jesus unless people go and share or unless God decides to give them a supernatural revelation. Millions upon millions of people have never heard of Jesus. Are all these people still held responsible under your parachute analogy when they were never given a parachute? They have no choice. They plummet to their death with no hope. Can you see how your human choice trumps God's sovereignty philosophy falls desperately short?

 

[God's Truth]

Following are more indisputable passages from the bible that show Calvinism is not biblical.

Acts 17 24″The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ 29″Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man’s design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.”

You see in Acts 17:27 God wants men to seek him, and that God is not far from “each one of us.” In addition, see in 17:30 God commands “all people everywhere” to repent. Remember, Calvinists say not all men. Clearly, Calvinists beliefs are different from what God says. See also in 31, God has given proof to “all men.”

After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. Acts 15:7-8.

The scripture says God who knows the heart showed that he accepted them. What does it matter what God sees in our hearts if all are totally depraved? What does it matter what God sees in our hearts if we have nothing to do with being saved?

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:20-22.

This scripture and many scriptures tell us why God has not saved someone, and the scriptures do not say God did not save them because He did not enable them to believe.

If humans are totally depraved and cannot know God, then how is it that even demons know there is one God? See James 2:19.

 

[God's Truth]

In this next scripture, Paul warns us.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25.

Here Paul tells us not to refuse Him who speaks; we are warned not to turn away. If we are incapable of believing, what good is that warning! The Word of God says we have to believe. God wants us to choose Him.

Warning against Unbelief

Hebrews 3:7-19 is about warning against unbelief. Again, why would God warn people against unbelief if they were incapable of believing?

7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Calvinists go against God’s word.

 

[MennoSota]

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6.

Is hunger and thirst a work? To hunger and to thirst is a condition of a person’s spirit. If it is as Calvinists say, that our spirit has nothing to do with whether or not we have salvation, then what does it matter if we hunger or thirst?

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30.

Is weariness a work?

“Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” Romans 10:11. Is trust a work?

“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:13. Is calling a work?

Calvinists say we have to do nothing at all, not even believe. That is nonsensical, to say the least. We have to do that which God says to do!

In Luke 24:4, Jesus opened the minds of the apostles, so they could understand the scriptures. In Acts 16:14, Jesus opened the heart of Lydia so she could respond to Paul’s message. Jesus opened minds and hearts to people who first believed! Jesus did not do this to make them believe, they already believed. Lydia was already a worshiper of God, and Jesus’ disciples already believed in Jesus.

Humans, whom God adopts as His children, believe because God gives them the gift of faith. God's adopted children will hunger and thirst after righteousness. Hunger and thirst is what God causes in the believer. No unbeliever will hunger or thirst after righteousness. No unbeliever will seek after God. They will consider the gospel to be utter foolishness. Humans are by nature rebels against God. They will not stop rebelling unless God stops them by the force of His will.

 

[MennoSota]

God draws us with lovingkindness, Jeremiah 31:3. God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked, see Luke 6:35

The following are scriptures that show a loving God, and that God calls and some do not answer. They resist God.

But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.” Romans 10:21.

God held his hands out. The people were obstinate to God holding his hands out.

Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations–

Does it make sense that God would hold out His hands to people if He made it impossible for them to come to Him? Calvinism is insanity. Pagans CHOOSE to do that in which they do.

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do–living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

God held out His hands to disobedient and obstinate people. They rejected God. It is their sin, their sin of rejecting God. They rejected God on their own and will be judged and punished for that. When God judges them and punishes them, it will be the sin of rejecting God. If God made them without the capability to believe, then they would be innocent.

Calvinists say that God created all people with the inability to choose Him, yet in these next scriptures, it shows that God wants the wicked to turn from their ways. Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to?

“But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”

Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

God helps those whom he chooses to help. You realize that Israel is chosen by God...do you not?! The Old Testament is written to the elect just as the New Testament is written to the elect. The Bible will be foolishness to the perishing. The perishing will twist and manipulate the Bible to force it to say what they want to hear. One telling sign is when a person cherry-picks verses as a prooftext out of context.

 

[God's Truth]

Humans, whom God adopts as His children, believe because God gives them the gift of faith. God's adopted children will hunger and thirst after righteousness. Hunger and thirst is what God causes in the believer. No unbeliever will hunger or thirst after righteousness. No unbeliever will seek after God. They will consider the gospel to be utter foolishness. Humans are by nature rebels against God. They will not stop rebelling unless God stops them by the force of His will.

You are going against the scriptures I gave. Go back and study harder what your opponent says, if you want to have a good debate. I did that with the Calvinists' beliefs, now you go and do that with what I said here.

 

[God's Truth]

God helps those whom he chooses to help. You realize that Israel is chosen by God...do you not?! The Old Testament is written to the elect just as the New Testament is written to the elect. The Bible will be foolishness to the perishing. The perishing will twist and manipulate the Bible to force it to say what they want to hear. One telling sign is when a person cherry-picks verses as a prooftext out of context.

All the scriptures Calvinists use to try to prove their beliefs are actually passages explaining how the Gentiles come into salvation.

Jews are God’s first people, and salvation had to be an offering to the Jews firstly.
In addition, God had hardened many of the Jews.
They did not believe, and they were hardened. Gentiles grafted in when Jews were hardened and cut off.
The elect are the people who believe. The Gentiles obtained what Israel sought so earnestly (by works). We are saved by grace and not of by works. The Jews had the Law to which they worked. Paul says, “I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.” (Romans 9:1-5)

The Remnant of Israel

Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3″Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

Again, the elect are the people who believe in Jesus. We believe in Jesus, and this believing Jesus saves us. That is God’s grace. The people who would not believe in Jesus, they are the people who were hardened for not believing.

 

[God's Truth]

See what Isaiah say in Isaiah 64:5, "BUT WHEN WE CONTINUED TO SIN …... YOU WERE ANGRY. HOW THEN CAN WE BE SAVED?"
All of us have become like one who is unclean. If they were born totally depraved, THEN HOW can they BECOME as one who is unclean? Furthermore, this passage is about how even though the Jews were the chosen ones of God, they were just like anyone else, unclean! How do Calvinists explain that the chosen Jews were not believers in Jesus? Calvinists teach that God gives His Spirit to His chosen. That is incorrect beliefs, for God hardened His chosen people who did not believe in Jesus!

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, I didn't make baptism a requirement salvation. I shared the Great Commission, which tells us to go, make disciples, teach and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere do I mention or encourage baptismal regeneration. I'm not sure how you ran down that rabbit hole.
Humans can know there is a Creator by observing nature, but they cannot know Jesus unless people go and share or unless God decides to give them a supernatural revelation. Millions upon millions of people have never heard of Jesus. Are all these people still held responsible under your parachute analogy when they were never given a parachute? They have no choice. They plummet to their death with no hope. Can you see how your human choice trumps God's sovereignty philosophy falls desperately short?

No, I didn't make baptism a requirement salvation. I shared the Great Commission, which tells us to go, make disciples, teach and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere do I mention or encourage baptismal regeneration. I'm not sure how you ran down that rabbit hole.

Not directly, no. But indirectly, you said that in order for someone to come to Christ, they must be baptised.

By quoting the Great Commission, being someone who believes that only by Christ regenerating someone can they come to know Him, you have specified that only by being baptised can Christ regenerate someone.

That is inherently contradictory to your position, AND to mine, which is that one has to simply believe for Christ to save them.

Humans can know there is a Creator by observing nature, but they cannot know Jesus

Perhaps not to the extent that Christians can know God, no. But they can acknowledge that He exists, and even come to repentance of their wrongdoing, and trust in Him, and serve Him.

Again, see Romans 2.

unless people go and share or unless God decides to give them a supernatural revelation.

So faith comes by people sharing or supernatural revelation only?

No, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God's word isn't just the Bible. It's all of creation, that should men cease praising Him the rocks themselves would cry out. The heavens declare God's glory. You can't go 5 inches in this world without coming across something that God created.

Millions upon millions of people have never heard of Jesus. Are all these people still held responsible under your parachute analogy when they were never given a parachute? They have no choice. They plummet to their death with no hope.

Since Christ's DBR, ALL have been given a parachute, whether they're aware of it or not. They are still able, however to pull the cord once they become aware of it. How can they be made aware of it? They just need to look at the world around them, and recognize that something or Someone created it all, and then put their faith in that Entity. Remember back in Acts when Paul was in Greece, he came upon a sign in the midst of the objects they worshipped?

What did that sign say?

It said: "To the unknown God."

Even those who have never heard of the Bible or the law can recognize God.

Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious;for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising.Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” - Acts 17:22-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts17:22-31&version=NKJV

Can you see how your human choice trumps God's sovereignty philosophy falls desperately short?

Straw man.

Have you forgotten?

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:10-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:10-13&version=NKJV

 

[God's Truth]

Hebrews 4:2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.

Why in Hebrews 4:2 did Paul not say something like, 'For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard were not enabled to have faith to believe it'?

 

[God's Truth]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Why did Paul not say '...which is at work in you who were enabled to believe'? I mean, Paul is taking time to explain carefully to the Thessalonians, so why not explain more adequately.