"The End of the World(TM)"?

Nick M

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I have no need for circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, feast keeping, or sabbath keeping.


I hope that answers your question.
Nice misdirection. So the answer is no, you do not apply laws meant for Israel. Then why do you apply prophecy for her? Paul said he was telling us a mystery. You can't search it out in the Scriptures. So why do you apply prophecy when it is not for you?
 

Gary K

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So, since you believe that Hebrews was written to you, and that you are under the New Covenant.... what tribe are you from?

Or were you not aware that the New Covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah —not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8:7-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews8:7-13&version=NKJV
The only way to come to that conclusion is to ignore Paul's writings in Ephesians 2 and 2Corinthians 3 and what Peter said when Cornelius for him at the instruction of an angel.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

The Jews of Christ's and the apostle's day were the most bigoted people on the earth therefore Peter was shocked to learn that God cared just as much for the Gentiles as He did for Peter. Before you object to this consider the samaritan woman at the well and Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan and the Pharisee's response to it.

Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

That Pharisee couldn't even bring himself to say the word Samaritan because the natural response to Jesus' question is the Samaratin.
 

Gary K

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I didn't ask about the 10 commandments. I know you don't keep them. Do you keep the ceremonial laws given to Israel.
No, you didn't but you conflated the ceremonial laws and the 10 commandments.

I also believe that we can keep them through the power of the Holy Spirit and our personal relationship with Jesus. In fact, every one of the Protestant Reformers believed the same thing. I can demonstrate this from the writings of Calvin, Luther, Melancthon, Knox, etc....
 
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JudgeRightly

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The only way to come to that conclusion is to ignore Paul's writings in Ephesians 2 and 2Corinthians 3 and what Peter said when Cornelius for him at the instruction of an angel.

I was asking you a qestion. What "conclusion" are you even talking about?

I quoted scripture, to support my question, and you ignored it. can you please answer the question I asked?

What tribe are you from?

I ask because you think that you are under the New Covenant, which Hebrews states clearly was made between God and the Houses of Israel and Judah.

Or were you not aware of what Hebrews 8:7-13 says?

It's ok to have not been aware of it. Everyone makes mistakes, but what is important is that when your error is pointed out to you, you correct your position.

So again, I ask: what tribe are you from, you who say you are under the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah?
 

Gary K

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I was asking you a qestion. What "conclusion" are you even talking about?

I quoted scripture, to support my question, and you ignored it. can you please answer the question I asked?

What tribe are you from?

I ask because you think that you are under the New Covenant, which Hebrews states clearly was made between God and the Houses of Israel and Judah.

Or were you not aware of what Hebrews 8:7-13 says?

It's ok to have not been aware of it. Everyone makes mistakes, but what is important is that when your error is pointed out to you, you correct your position.

So again, I ask: what tribe are you from, you who say you are under the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah?
You ignore Ephesians 2. Galatians 3, and Romans 10. Same author. Why make him argue with himself?

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

This is why I say your view of God and the Bible are so radically different we have nothing in common and thus have no basis for a constructive discussion.as you almost immediately resort to insults. If I did that would you consider that good behavior on my part?
 

JudgeRightly

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You ignore Ephesians 2. Galatians 3, and Romans 10.

How am I ignoring anything?

I'm just asking you a question.

Based on your belief, which you have admitted in this thread:

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


Who is 'them/their'?

Guarantee you that he isn't ignoring it at all...

And neither do I.

We (Steko and I) agree that in the Body there is no difference between Jew and Gentile.

So, with that in mind, to whom is the "them/their" referring?

To all of us. You and I and Ben Avram (sp?).

... that Hebrews is referring to people like yourself in Hebrews 10:16-17, and because you also claimed:

If you consider yourself a new covenant Christian then the law of God applies to you. Paul clearly tells us this in 2 Corinthians chapter 3.

... and you clearly do, thus my question to you is:

What tribe are you from?

I ask because Hebrews 8:7-13 states that those under the New Covenant are either God, whom I presume that you agree are not Him, and "the house of Israel and the House of Judah" (verse 8).

Same author. Why make him argue with himself?

Why are you asking me that?

You're the one who says that it's the same author, yet seem to think that I'm ignoring what Paul says in other books because you can't accept the fact that a verse in Hebrews 8 contradicts your position.

What sort of cognitive dissonance does one have to have in order to blame someone else for an inconsistency in their own belief, when the person is literally just asking a question and quoting scripture to support it?

ESPECIALLY after I said: "We (Steko and I) agree that in the Body there is no difference between Jew and Gentile"!

have no basis for a constructive discussion

Sure we do.

We both believe that scripture does not contradict itself, no?

Therefore, either:

1) You, based on your own claim of being under the New Covenant, are part of Israel, and that Paul wrote Hebrews, thus should answer my question, "what tribe are you from?" instead of avoiding it like the plague; OR

2) your position that we are under the new covenant is wrong, and that what Paul says does not fit with what is said in Hebrews 8:7-13 and therefore he could not have written Hebrews, thus someone else wrote it, and that Hebrews was written to a different audience than the books that Paul DID write.

I agree with Scripture, that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I disagree that the Body of Christ is under the New Covenant, because the New Covenant, as God says several times very clearly in the Bible, was made between God and Israel.

Now. Can you answer my question regarding what tribe of Israel you're a member of?

Or will you recognize that your position is in error, and at the very least acknowledge that what Paul says in the verses you quoted doesn't quite jive with what is written in Hebrews?

Or, will you continue to be a fool and continue to dodge the question?
 

Hoping

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Nice misdirection.
? What happened to the first part of my response?
So the answer is no, you do not apply laws meant for Israel.
Correct, if you are referring to anything but nine of the ten commandments given to Moses on the mount.
Sabbaths are passed away.
Then why do you apply prophecy for her?
You need to elaborate, as I don't know which prophesy you mean.
Paul said he was telling us a mystery.
Agreed, and that mystery is supplied in Col. 1:27..."To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"
You can't search it out in the Scriptures.
I just did.
So why do you apply prophecy when it is not for you?
Which prophesy, precisely?
 

Gary K

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How am I ignoring anything?

I'm just asking you a question.

Based on your belief, which you have admitted in this thread:







... that Hebrews is referring to people like yourself in Hebrews 10:16-17, and because you also claimed:



... and you clearly do, thus my question to you is:

What tribe are you from?

I ask because Hebrews 8:7-13 states that those under the New Covenant are either God, whom I presume that you agree are not Him, and "the house of Israel and the House of Judah" (verse 8).



Why are you asking me that?

You're the one who says that it's the same author, yet seem to think that I'm ignoring what Paul says in other books because you can't accept the fact that a verse in Hebrews 8 contradicts your position.

What sort of cognitive dissonance does one have to have in order to blame someone else for an inconsistency in their own belief, when the person is literally just asking a question and quoting scripture to support it?

ESPECIALLY after I said: "We (Steko and I) agree that in the Body there is no difference between Jew and Gentile"!



Sure we do.

We both believe that scripture does not contradict itself, no?

Therefore, either:

1) You, based on your own claim of being under the New Covenant, are part of Israel, and that Paul wrote Hebrews, thus should answer my question, "what tribe are you from?" instead of avoiding it like the plague; OR

2) your position that we are under the new covenant is wrong, and that what Paul says does not fit with what is said in Hebrews 8:7-13 and therefore he could not have written Hebrews, thus someone else wrote it, and that Hebrews was written to a different audience than the books that Paul DID write.

I agree with Scripture, that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I disagree that the Body of Christ is under the New Covenant, because the New Covenant, as God says several times very clearly in the Bible, was made between God and Israel.

Now. Can you answer my question regarding what tribe of Israel you're a member of?

Or will you recognize that your position is in error, and at the very least acknowledge that what Paul says in the verses you quoted doesn't quite jive with what is written in Hebrews?

Or, will you continue to be a fool and continue to dodge the question?
Ok. Last time I'm answering you on thus subject.

I asked you what you would think if I behaved the same way you do and you ignored it.

I gave you three verses that support my position and you claim the weight of one verse outweighs my evidence. How does that work? From the very author you profess to believe and base all your theology on. Why?
 

JudgeRightly

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I gave you three verses that support my position

And I gave you a passage that contradicts your position.

and you claim the weight of one verse outweighs my evidence. How does that work?

Would you like me to quote more verses that say the exact same thing? Or would you like to answer the question I've asked you now at least three times in this thread, because o the fact that what you claim to believe does not line up with the scripture you claim to believe.

From the very author you profess to believe and base all your theology on. Why?

Because my theology comes from the ENTIRE Bible, not just Paul's letters.

And I'm sure you claim the same thing.

Now, please answer the question, and stop avoiding it.

How am I ignoring anything?

I'm just asking you a question.

Based on your belief, which you have admitted in this thread:







... that Hebrews is referring to people like yourself in Hebrews 10:16-17, and because you also claimed:



... and you clearly do, thus my question to you is:

What tribe are you from?

I ask because Hebrews 8:7-13 states that those under the New Covenant are either God, whom I presume that you agree are not Him, and "the house of Israel and the House of Judah" (verse 8).



Why are you asking me that?

You're the one who says that it's the same author, yet seem to think that I'm ignoring what Paul says in other books because you can't accept the fact that a verse in Hebrews 8 contradicts your position.

What sort of cognitive dissonance does one have to have in order to blame someone else for an inconsistency in their own belief, when the person is literally just asking a question and quoting scripture to support it?

ESPECIALLY after I said: "We (Steko and I) agree that in the Body there is no difference between Jew and Gentile"!



Sure we do.

We both believe that scripture does not contradict itself, no?

Therefore, either:

1) You, based on your own claim of being under the New Covenant, are part of Israel, and that Paul wrote Hebrews, thus should answer my question, "what tribe are you from?" instead of avoiding it like the plague; OR

2) your position that we are under the new covenant is wrong, and that what Paul says does not fit with what is said in Hebrews 8:7-13 and therefore he could not have written Hebrews, thus someone else wrote it, and that Hebrews was written to a different audience than the books that Paul DID write.

I agree with Scripture, that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I disagree that the Body of Christ is under the New Covenant, because the New Covenant, as God says several times very clearly in the Bible, was made between God and Israel.

Now. Can you answer my question regarding what tribe of Israel you're a member of?

Or will you recognize that your position is in error, and at the very least acknowledge that what Paul says in the verses you quoted doesn't quite jive with what is written in Hebrews?

Or, will you continue to be a fool and continue to dodge the question?
 
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