ECT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH & DOCTRINAL AUTHORITY: Three Sources

Cruciform

New member
Yours is not the only church. I hold to the traditions of my church, too.
No doubt. The question is whether or not your chosen "church" is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D..---and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18)---or whether your chosen group was invented by a mere man (or men) during the past five centuries or so. If you claim the former, then go ahead and post your proof so that we may consider it.

We don't worship idols...
Neither do Catholics.

We don't repeat prayers over and over.
Neither do Catholics violate Jesus' instructions on this point.

We don't dress in funny costumes to cause people to think we're holy or special.
No doubt the "dresses" worn by Jesus and the apostles would strike you as "funny" as well. In any case, you can begin to remedy your ignorance on this issue by considering this.

We don't worship crackers.
Neither do Catholics.

We don't believe that our traditions are perfect and could change, should God teach us differently.
Genuine Apostolic Tradition, being itself the word of God, cannot change any more than the truths of Scripture can change.

Posting links to old posts doesn't help your cause, it just shows that you're too lazy to try to defend your beliefs.
Your transparent excuse for ignoring the relevant information is noted. In any case, the information is there for any genuinely interested and honest reader to consider.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
"...do not adhere to oatmeal's preferred interpretations of Scripture," you mean. Big difference there.


Now go ahead and post your proof for this completely unsubstantiated assertion.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Well, too bad you do not know what those traditions are

Not being written down, oral tradition would distort rather quickly.

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

For that matter, do you really think that God would leave tradition open to guesswork, when you have God's written word to live by?

Which you conveniently ignore
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
Who said anything about the "Roman" Catholic Church? I'm talking about the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., and which has existed in every century since, down to our own day.

so how come it's in rome and not israel?
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
The question is whether or not your chosen "church" is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D..
He didn't establish an institution. He said that those who are His would be known by their love for their fellow-Christian. I've only seen that in a very few spirit-filled Catholics. Most who come into a dynamic relationship with The Living God leave Catholicism for a more loving congregation.
Neither do Catholics (worship idols).
Sorry. I know better. I've seen the masses of people bowing to statues and leaving food and other presents at their feet. It's not Christian at all. It's idol-worship. :duh:
...and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18)
I am the church. My body is The Temple of The Lord. It is me (as well as other believers in Christ) which is capable of attacking the enemy at his very gates.
...or whether your chosen group was invented by a mere man (or men) during the past five centuries or so.
Actually, the one Who established my church is a Man and He is God, too. Jesus made me a member of His Body by inhabiting my flesh, not by causing me to join any particular denomination. He isn't into religion.
Neither do Catholics violate Jesus' instructions on this point (repetitious prayers).
They do, because it is vain repetition for no reason, other than thinking that you will be heard because you repeat it often enough.
No doubt the "dresses" worn by Jesus and the apostles would strike you as "funny" as well.
They were normal clothing for the day, that normal people wore. Should The Lord have chosen today to walk this earth, He would no doubt wear Levi's, a T-shirt and Crocks. He certainly wouldn't wear a clown outfit like your pretend pope wears. He didn't walk in Jewery for the same reason. He isn't religious. He came to seek and to save that which was lost in the fall: relationship. It's what He wants to have with every soul on the planet. He even wants you to come out of empty dead religion and meet Him.
Neither do Catholics (worship crackers).
Actually, they do.

I present a quote from THIS ARTICLE for your consideration:
Can you tell where the Roman Catholic Jesus is in these pictures? See that little white circle in the middle of the sunbursts? That is a cracker. Catholics call it Jesus or the "holy" Eucharist. They eat their Jesus. But before they eat him, at times they bow down in front of this gold thing that holds their Jesus and worship him (one former nun who became a Christian testified that she would spend hours before "the host" that little cracker that the Romish priest supposedly changed into the Lord Jesus Christ (which blasphemy and heresy did not, and does not, happen.)) . The gold thing is called a monstrance. Sometimes the monstrance is paraded through the street with their Jesus (idol) in it and "adored" in their solemn processions. You see, their Jesus can't walk. He has to be borne about by men. THIS is the Roman Catholic Jesus that we write about here at Jesus is Lord--he is plainly not the Jesus of the Authorized Version of the Bible.
Genuine Apostolic Tradition, being itself the word of God, cannot change any more than the truths of Scripture can change.
Actually, The Word of God has not changed. Your imagining that the early church did the nonsense you cling to as 'holy tradition' doesn't make it so. If it were, history would have recorded such and if it were important there would be a whole lot more genuine relationships created in your pretend religion than what occurs. What few do occur only happen to those who seek The Lord with their whole heart and end up leaving your empty dead religion for a church that believes the way they've come to know by coming into a dynamic relationship with The Living God.
 

Cruciform

New member
Well, too bad you do not know what those traditions are.
One important apostolic Tradition is the Canon of Scripture. Many others, again, can be found expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Not being written down, oral tradition would distort rather quickly.
Nonsense.

For that matter, do you really think that God would leave tradition open to guesswork, when you have God's written word to live by?
Following the Church's Sacred Tradition is no more "guesswork" than is following the Church's understanding of Sacred Scripture. What is guesswork is arrogantly presuming to interpret the Bible apart from the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church, as Protestantism has done. Result: 50,000+ competing and contradictory man-made non-Catholic sects to date, with more being invented every week. What a tragic and utter failure.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Cruciform

New member
so how come it's in rome and not israel?
The central location of the Christian faith shifted from Jerusalem to Rome a few centuries after its founding. Rome was the cultural center of the world at the time, and contributed to the rapid spread of the faith during the Church's early history.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Tradition is simply the word of God (Divine Revelation) in unwritten form, while Scripture is the word of God in written form.

Write these traditions, "the word of God (Divine Revelation) in" written form, right after Revelation 22:21 KJV.


I thought so.
 

Cruciform

New member
He didn't establish an institution.
He established this.

Sorry. I know better. I've seen the masses of people bowing to statues and leaving food and other presents at their feet. It's not Christian at all. It's idol-worship.
No, it's merely you imposing a decidedly a decidedly Protestant anti-Catholic interpretation upon a specifically Catholic action. In short, you've simply misinterpreted what you've seen according to the assumptions and opinions that you have derived from your chosen man-made non-Catholic sect. But your chosen tradition is simply wrong on this point.

I am the church.
Nonsense. Again, this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Actually, the one Who established my church is a Man and He is God, too. Jesus made me a member of His Body by inhabiting my flesh, not by causing me to join any particular denomination. He isn't into religion.
See just above.

They do, because it is vain repetition for no reason, other than thinking that you will be heard because you repeat it often enough.
Again, you're simply imposing a decidedly Protestant anti-Catholic interpretation upon a specifically Catholic action. You've misinterpreted it completely---just as you've been taught to do.

They were normal clothing for the day, that normal people wore. Should The Lord have chosen today to walk this earth, He would no doubt wear Levi's, a T-shirt and Crocks. He certainly wouldn't wear a clown outfit like your pretend pope wears.
Answered just above, as well as in my previous post.

Can you tell where the Roman Catholic Jesus is in these pictures?
The manifest presence of the Lord Jesus Christ has replaced the substance of bread and wine. The Christian Church has believed and taught this from the very beginning.

Actually, The Word of God has not changed. Your imagining that the early church did the nonsense you cling to as 'holy tradition' doesn't make it so. If it were, history would have recorded such and if it were important there would be a whole lot more genuine relationships created in your pretend religion than what occurs. What few do occur only happen to those who seek The Lord with their whole heart and end up leaving your empty dead religion for a church that believes the way they've come to know by coming into a dynamic relationship with The Living God.
Again, the assumptions, opinions, and traditions that you have derived from your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
tradition was that the central location of the Christian faith was Jerusalem

then they shifted it to Rome


looks like messing around with tradition isn't so sacrosanct after all :idunno:
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
"I am the church. "-respective members of the body of Christ



Nonsense. Again, this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ


Made up. The church, which is his body, in this dispensation, is made up of respective members of the body of Christ, fallible members, in a spiritual organism, not some "ecclesiastical hierarchy" of clowns, in clown outfits/hats, known as the Roman Catholic Organization, posing/pretending that they are "infallible."
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
He established this.
No, your chosen cult has told you that He did. He did not. Peter is not the rock. The revelation knowledge that Simon received from The Father is. Jesus thought so much of the revelation which he received that He re-named Simon. He became known as Peter, or 'rocky' due to this revelation. It is revelation knowledge in each of us that Christ's church is built upon. Without that, none of us would even consider Christ to be anything but a mad man. Following the vain traditions of men will get you nothing. Hearing from God will get you anywhere God needs you to be.
No, it's merely you imposing a decidedly a decidedly Protestant anti-Catholic interpretation upon a specifically Catholic action. In short, you've simply misinterpreted what you've seen according to the assumptions and opinions that you have derived from your chosen man-made non-Catholic sect. But your chosen tradition is simply wrong on this point.
My chosen tradition is The Word of God. If you think It is wrong, that's fine.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Nonsense. Again, this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ.
ibid
The manifest presence of the Lord Jesus Christ has replaced the substance of bread and wine. The Christian Church has believed and taught this from the very beginning.
Your cult has, but Christianity has not. It happened only in recent history, and only in the harlot RCC.
Again, the assumptions, opinions, and traditions that you have derived from your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted.
Sorry, but The Lord is The Author and Finisher of my faith, not an empty dead building or political bunch of bureaucrats. :duh:
 

Cruciform

New member
tradition was that the central location of the Christian faith was Jerusalem then they shifted it to Rome looks like messing around with tradition isn't so sacrosanct after all :idunno:
Come back when you've adequately educated yourself regarding the actual meaning of Catholic Tradition.
 
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