Theology Club: The Beginning of the Present Dispensation Was at Acts 13

[SaulToPaul 2]

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.


Finish the course. Testify, not testify again.

 

[Danoh]

According to you and your comrades if I quote Scriptures to support my beliefs then the thread is ruined. And it is especially ruinous to you all because you usually just run and hide from those verses!

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4443846#post4443846

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It's an endure to the end to be saved for them. You know it and HATE it.

The words here are found in a narrative and it does speak of the end coming:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:13-14).​

By the context we can understand that the word "end" is referring to the end of the great tribulation:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:20-21).​

It will be those who endure to the end of the tribulation period "physically" who will be saved "physically" by the Lord Jesus when he returns to the earth:

"In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem...And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem...Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zech.12:8-9;14:3-4).​

 

[Danoh]

The words here are found in a narrative and it does speak of the end coming:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:13-14).​

By the context we can understand that the word "end" is referring to the end of the great tribulation:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:20-21).​

It will be those who endure to the end of the tribulation period "physically" who will be saved "physically" by the Lord Jesus when he returns to the earth:

"In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem...And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem...Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zech.12:8-9;14:3-4).​

Yeah, okay, Peter et al: supposed "members of the Body" according to some, having to worry about Shabbat travel distance restrictions, Acts 1:12.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.


Finish the course. Testify, not testify again.

So what is your point?

 

[Right Divider]

The words here are found in a narrative and it does speak of the end coming:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:13-14).​

By the context we can understand that the word "end" is referring to the end of the great tribulation:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:20-21).​

It will be those who endure to the end of the tribulation period "physically" who will be saved "physically" by the Lord Jesus when he returns to the earth:

"In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem...And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem...Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zech.12:8-9;14:3-4).​

:first:
I've explained this to many "endurers".

 

[DAN P]

Why do you say that 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a different issue?

Are you one of those who say that there were two different Bodies of Christ?

If you believe that teaching from the Acts 28 crowd then you are a Novice!

Hi and I have forgotten why I wroye that , now and will have to go back to one of your posts .

1 Cor 12:13 explains HOW we enter the Body of Christ !!

Gal 3:28 explains that all lose their IDENTITY in the BODY , and that means all Jews saved during the Dispensation of Grace !!

I am not Acts 28 , and hold to one BODY and am strictly PAULINE for the Acts 13 people and some Acts 9 believe that Paul was saved under the Kingdom program and that he also water Baptized and was Water Baptized .

Most believers have a hard time understandings Paul's ministry to Gentiles ,Kings and to the Jews , especially in the Acts !!

dN P

 

[DAN P]

"As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away" (Acts 13:2-3).[/INDENT]

Hi , Jerry , and just where in Acts 13 is the word dispensation mentioned ?

But even in Gal 1:15 Paul's calling was by GRACE , 9 months before he was born

The dispensation of Grace began and written by Paul , also in 1 cOR 15:8 , " born out of due TIME "

And in Rom 1:1 Paul was APHORIZO /SEPARATED which is a Perfect Tense and Passive Voice and a Participle .

Should be translated " Having been APHORIZO " or can be translated by the English words LIMITED or SEPARATED or BOUNDARY .

You first have to have a PERSON ( PAUL SEPARATED , THEN TAUGHT THE MESSAGE ) Gal 1:16 and 17 for the preaching to begin and Acts 13 does not do the above and Acts 13 is a RED HERRING , like Pentecost and Tongues are for today !!

So much for KJV- ONLY !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi , Jerry , and just where in Acts 13 is the word dispensation mentioned ?

But even in Gal 1:15 Paul's calling was by GRACE , 9 months before he was born

The dispensation of Grace began and written by Paul , also in 1 cOR 15:8 , " born out of due TIME "

And in Rom 1:1 Paul was APHORIZO /SEPARATED which is a Perfect Tense and Passive Voice and a Participle .

Should be translated " Having been APHORIZO " or can be translated by the English words LIMITED or SEPARATED or BOUNDARY .

You first have to have a PERSON ( PAUL SEPARATED , THEN TAUGHT THE MESSAGE ) Gal 1:16 and 17 for the preaching to begin and Acts 13 does not do the above and Acts 13 is a RED HERRING , like Pentecost and Tongues are for today !!

So much for KJV- ONLY !!

dan p

Consider that it just might be a lack on your part in a strong fluency with the Early Modern English of the KJV...

 

[DAN P]

Consider that it just might be a lack on your part in a strong fluency with the Early Modern English of the KJV...

Hi and when a person understand the verbs in the bible , THEN you will see why Translations are not Inspired as there are 160 translation that I have seen !!

That is why there is a need to Righty divide , 2 Tim 2:15 !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and when a person understand the verbs in the bible , THEN you will see why Translations are not Inspired as there are 160 translation that I have seen !!

That is why there is a need to Righty divide , 2 Tim 2:15 !!

dan p

Lol - read - my loooong VERB...

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE KJV TRANSLATION - NOR ANY OTHER - WAS, INSPIRED.

 

[DAN P]

Lol - read - my loooong VERB...

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE KJV TRANSLATION - NOR ANY OTHER - WAS, INSPIRED.

Hi and I know the the Grace movement has some well known Pastor that hold this view and can change verses all around !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and I know the the Grace movement has some well known Pastor that hold this view and can change verses all around !!

dan p

Think that through...

One division within the Grace Movement is the issue of whether or not God is still working outside of His Word.

Group A - those who assert He still does, take issue with Group B - those who assert He no longer does.

Group B is Cessasionist.

(The best within the ranks of both never seem to need to "that's not for us!" anyone who so much as says hello to them).

Those within the Grace Movement who hold to the KJVO, also belong to Group B- they are consistently Cessasionist in their application of the Pauline Dispensational Hermeneutic.

You would think that Group A (not consistently Cessasionist), if anyone, would be the Group who would hold to this understanding of yours that those who hold to the KJVO, assert it is an inspired translation.

Fact is, it is their enemies - those with Group A who simply live to deride anyone within their own brethren who do not agree with them, who spread this rumor.

See, its easy to talk about "oh how we love the Mystery; oh how it would solve for all divisions..."

But the fact is that, in our flesh, we are all still in Adam and the tendencies of will and mind we can still be prone to unless we work on same can be an issue.

As a result, some will say one thing in public, another behind closed doors.

That's why it is best to simply remain open to hearing out all views.

Try that some time.

Actually go and break bread with some Messianics, for example, and just leave your need for "that's not for us!" at home.

You'd be surprised what you will learn about Prophecy and Mystery, even though they might not hold to "our" Mid-Acts Distinction.

 

[DAN P]

Think that through...

One division within the Grace Movement is the issue of whether or not God is still working outside of His Word.

Group A - those who assert He still does, take issue with Group B - those who assert He no longer does.

Group B is Cessasionist.

(The best within the ranks of both never seem to need to "that's not for us!" anyone who so much as says hello to them).

Those within the Grace Movement who hold to the KJVO, also belong to Group B- they are consistently Cessasionist in their application of the Pauline Dispensational Hermeneutic.

You would think that Group A (not consistently Cessasionist), if anyone, would be the Group who would hold to this understanding of yours that those who hold to the KJVO, assert it is an inspired translation.

Fact is, it is their enemies - those with Group A who simply live to deride anyone within their own brethren who do not agree with them, who spread this rumor.

See, its easy to talk about "oh how we love the Mystery; oh how it would solve for all divisions..."

But the fact is that, in our flesh, we are all still in Adam and the tendencies of will and mind we can still be prone to unless we work on same can be an issue.

As a result, some will say one thing in public, another behind closed doors.

That's why it is best to simply remain open to hearing out all views.

Try that some time.

Actually go and break bread with some Messianics, for example, and just leave your need for "that's not for us!" at home.

You'd be surprised what you will learn about Prophecy and Mystery, even though they might not hold to "our" Mid-Acts Distinction.

Hi and I listened to many views than you know !!

What I have now I like and has helped stability me as I know now how to study as the Pauline truth is best and IF you use the words that the Holy Spirit uses , is best !!

dan p

 

[musterion]

Actually go and break bread with some Messianics...You'd be surprised what you will learn about Prophecy and Mystery, even though they might not hold to "our" Mid-Acts Distinction.

Messianics tend to diminish Paul's apostleship and believe in some degree of lawkeeping for salvation, which puts them under the false gospel condemnation of Galatians 1. Right dividing believers are to avoid such (2 Thess 3:6).

 

[Danoh]

Hi and I listened to many views than you know !!

What I have now I like and has helped stability me as I know now how to study as the Pauline truth is best and IF you use the words that the Holy Spirit uses , is best !!

dan p

So quit throwing mud at those of our own who are KJVO when clearly you are off about this "inspired translation" notion they supposedly hold to.

 

[Danoh]

Messianics tend to diminish Paul's apostleship and believe in some degree of lawkeeping for salvation, which puts them under the false gospel condemnation of Galatians 1. Right dividing believers are to avoid such (2 Thess 3:6).

I'd agree where one is weak in one's own understanding.

And Messianics are divided just as we are.

Within their version of their divisions, some take serious issue with the Apostle Paul.

Others confuse him in a version of their own understanding of how most Protestants do.

Others think he is for, rather than against, the Law for the Body.

Some believe in eternal security. Some do not.

And so on...

At the same time, their background, culture, and how they look at things within Scripture will often shed some light on the Prophetic Program they invest so much time in, in their belief it is presently still active, that they cannot but at times share some things that helps you understand the culture Paul came out of, and people he had so loved that he had so risked his neck for on behalf of the Father in the Son by the Spirit, as Acts continued to wind down.

They are... an interesting people, these people through whom God gave the world His Son...

On another note, it was a lost Jew who helped me see my way to an answer to my question about what the possible significance of Acts 1:12's "which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey," might be.

Why? Because, as I have often found, even a stopped clock is right twice a day; even an old calendar is right every eleven years.

Just as one can learn much from Israel's stopped Prophetic Program, stopped some two thousand years now.

Anyway, that's my long wind on that; hope it edifies in some way.

By the way, how are you? You fully recovered, yet?

Get well soon, brother!

 

[musterion]

I took issue only with your encouragement to break the bread of fellowship with such. I do not see where it is allowable, given the usual gospel preached and believed by Messianics. As best I understand, they reject the pure, simple Gospel of grace (as does most of Christendom, for that matter) in favor of one requiring some degree of works out of the Law. That was my only point.

Thanks for asking about my health -- woke up tired but functional, and felt fine by noon. It was a literal 24 hour bug.

 

[Danoh]

I took issue only with your encouragement to break the bread of fellowship with such. I do not see where it is allowable, given the usual gospel preached and believed by Messianics. As best I understand, they reject the pure, simple Gospel of grace (as does most of Christendom, for that matter) in favor of one requiring some degree of works out of the Law. That was my only point.

Thanks for asking about my health -- woke up tired but functional, and felt fine by noon. It was a literal 24 hour bug.

Good to hear you're well! Yay!!!