Stand for the Second Amendment
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
Called out, yes. I called out what you posted as a lie. You're just repeating some made up meme.
No, I don't think you care what I think or believe. Why would you? But do you care about whether you tell the truth or tell lies? Or do you just say whatever you want and it doesn't matter if it's true, is that the person you are?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
dodge
New member
Here is a thought take a deep breath and hold it until I decide to answer it or NOT.
I suppose most Americans want more or at least different laws for the most obvious reason: because the current approach is producing inferior results compared to literally every other Western democracy modeling alternatives.
There demonstrably is, which is why the average deaths per 100k in states with tougher gun laws is appreciably better than those with weaker laws. I noted the difference between the heavily populated New York, with much tougher laws and around 4 deaths per 100k and Alabama, with much weaker gun laws and over 20 deaths per 100k by way of example.
So the objective, empirically founded truth argues against your position.
It isn't the number, but the kind and efficacy we need to question, at least as it relates to guns. So we can examine our choices in comparison to more successful models in terms of limiting gun violence and consider our approach. Otherwise, common sense just becomes a disguise for business as usual and that's too bloody a business for most, thankfully.
In those other countries, those doing far better, registration and more has been the course for decades without anything of the sort happening, and they are, on the whole, far less fond of their guns than we are in America.
dodge
New member
You do understand that America has ALWAYS been a gun culture based society. what has changed is that parents do not PARENT much anymore. Kids have been taught that life has no meaning and if you want to play and be careless just kill your own baby. Add to that today the kids are being taught to doubt their own birth sex to their own personal ( perverted ) preference. To make it even worse God was yanked out of the public consciousnesses ( prayer removed from schools and the public square ) and replaced by situational ethics and morals. In Australia the crime rate went up NOT down after weapons were confiscated. Kids are chemically baby sat with ADHD drugs instead of being parented , corrected, and punished. This new liberal and permissive society was created by socialist that want a one world government with a one world leader, and have no fear it is coming soon. The new world leader will be the anti-Christ and he will rule the whole world.
There is a town in Georgia where everyone has a weapon and it is the law, and since the law passed they have had one murder. Your empirical evidence is wishful thinking.
What part of " shall not be infringed " do you not understand ? So your answer is to limit or confiscate the weapons of law abiding citizens because criminals break the law ?
The constitution of the United States is NOT based on what other countries do or do not do.
Guess you never heard of Australia where weapons were confiscated, which of course started off as a registration solution for gun violence and resulted in Australians having their right to defend themselves trampled on by their government. NO THANKS.
It's already been shown to be wrong in this thread by someone. I don't think you care about that though. Anyway, I'm talking with Dodge. Sorry that you think Dodge needs your help. I think he can handle it. I'll post plenty more accurate information if Dodge will stand up for and discuss what he said.
How about it Dodge, do you need okDosers help, or can you handle the conversation for yourself.
Of course. For generations they were a major source of livelihood, food production and protection against a wilderness of troubles. They were even a part of our national identity through militias. It's nowhere more impressed upon the culture than here in the South.
I'd say a great deal more than that has changed, including the relatively inexpensive availability of weapons that can allow anyone with a modest amount of cash the opportunity to cause a great deal of death and damage in moments.
Here's the thing, the increase in homicidal violence that I noted prior began with the children of the "Greatest Generation" and rose until those children began to age into their 30s and beyond. Presumably they were taught better on average, had more stable homes on average, lacked the exposure to the celebration of the worst expression of personal liberty so often found glorified in the popular media.
And yet those coming up with, as you note, a great deal less than that are actually behaving a great deal more than that generation. That too often rudderless generation born of the Baby Boomers, and the one following it, were actually part of the lessening of violence on average, dropping us out of the double digit nightmare, back into the national average only a little higher than what was true for the 50s, as per my earlier link.
Prayer has not been removed from schools or the public square, only the ability of some to use the state to promote a particular idea of Him. And if God is not recalled where moral instruction must begin and largely live, in the home, then no amount of propaganda from the state will undo that damage.
Gun laws aren't in place to prevent all crime, and in the case of Australia were mostly about impacting mass shootings, which they unquestionably did over the course of the next two decades and counting, as 0 occurred where 13 had taken place within 18 years ending with the Port Arthur massacre and the changes in their laws.
That said, I haven't seen your statistical database establishing the point. Link to it if you would so everyone can see the degree, the trend, etc. I mean, when you made the claim about our violence dropping more profoundly than Australia's did the year of the gun law change the statistical data on hand pretty comfortably explained why that was so without that impacting the larger point of gun law efficacy. I suspect the same will hold true here.
In the meantime, we can and should reconsider the reasonableness of providing all those less adjusted, corrected and punished kids growing toward 18 years of age with an easy access to weapons of mass destruction.
Empirical evidence is actually the opposite of wishful thinking and an enemy of your unfortunate habit of relying on internet memes in lieu of that very thing.
The town you're referencing is Kennesaw, Georgia.
Here's the actual ordinance as passed:
In other words, the ordinance was a paper tiger. If you wanted to own a gun you were "required" to and if you didn't believe you should you weren't. A position not unlike the reality that existed immediately prior to the passage of the ordinance.
Said the Kennesaw Police Dept. spokesman Craig Graydon, “It was not meant to be an enforceable law. The police department has never searched homes to make sure you had a gun. It was meant more or less as a political statement to support citizens’ second amendment rights to own firearms.”
And this from Snopes:
"In 1982, Kennesaw’s mayor and chief of police told the New York Times that their crime rate had always been low, and the entire state of Georgia experienced a drop in all crimes cited (burglary, property crime, and murder) in the years immediately following the law."
I understand it entirely, and so does the Court, yet impositions on particular weapons have been upheld as constitutional. Or, no right is absolute in its expression though the right itself must remain absolute. So, as I said, you have the right to assembly, but it does not follow that every group can exercise that right without regard for the rights of others. Any number of examples, but if you need yet another try telling your local or federal government that your religious expression requires you to perform a nudist march down the middle of your town each Sunday and see for yourself.
My answer to gun violence is to look at models that do a better job protecting citizens from it and to, while preserving the right, address the more fundamental right to be that our current approach fails more often than it should.
I never said that is was. What I've said is that the constitution itself is subject to correction where it has been found lacking, as with slavery, women's rights as citizens, the civil rights laws...but I believe we can accomplish a great deal short of that ground.
I've noted it repeatedly, though my argument doesn't rest on any one country. In fact, looking at this problem over numerous threads I've touched upon varying responses to gun violence in many other nations sharing our foundational form of government and spoken to their varying degrees of success, all of which dwarf our own.
Also, you're off your own point, as you said "total confiscation" began with registration. None of the countries I've noted, including Australia, have done that. You can have guns in any one of them, but you can't have any sort of gun in any of them.
It really didn't. There wasn't a registration as a stepping stone approach by the major players. The gun laws relating to particular weapons came as a response to Port Arthur and a national outrage coupled with the understandable desire to be rid of mass shootings, or at least to make them as unlikely as could be. Turns out to have been wildly successful too.
Yelling isn't really an argument either. :e4e:
dodge
New member
Here is a thought take a deep breath and hold it until I decide to answer it or NOT.
I didn't think you would answer. I doubt you even bothered to look it up for yourself, I don't think you care if things you say are true or not.
Are you an evangelical Christian?
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dodge
New member
Take a deep breath and wait for the answer.
You already gave us the answer, Dodge, you don't care if what you say is a lie if it backs you what you want to believe. Wish you'd shown me otherwise. Have a nice rest of your Sunday.
dodge
New member
The vast majority of gun violence is black on black. Based on that you believe law abiding folks should have more laws foisted on them ? If they would enforce the laws on the books it would not be as bad as it is.
:??: I'm not interested in following your rabbit trails! You said something, follow through on it, don't just change the conversation.
After completely ignoring that, now you're switching over to blaming gun violence on laws not being enforced on black people? With no sources! :lol:
But I agree with you Dodge that gun law should be strictly enforced. Too bad there's so much energy spent fighting against gun control instead of enforcing it.
dodge
New member
You are barking up the wrong tree ! The ones not enforcing the existing laws are the lax courts and early resale programs from prisons for the ones caught violating the existing gun laws. No law should hinder law abiding citizens gun rights but punish those caught breaking the law.
I don't know how you got that gun laws are not being enforced on black people when obviously the gun laws are lax because of the lenient sentences given to EVERYONE and not just for gun crimes but for all crimes.
I agree with you, gun control laws should be enforced, it would help decrease gun violence.
You don't know how I got that from you? I read this:
dodge
New member
Without the black on black gun crimes as part of the STATISTICS the US would not be as high on the list for gun violence was the point. I never said or implied that gun laws are not being enforced in the black community. YOU read that into my statement.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
I've heard the term 'gang-related.' Most of the 'gang-related' violence happens to be blacks or Hispanic people, that's a fact. I don't know, but I'm curious, what fraction of murders in the US are 'gang-related.' Certainly, a lot of murders occurring in cities infested with gang activity must be 'gang-related,' you would think . . . .
According to the National Gang Center, at least as recently as five years ago, Latinos comprised between 45 to 50 percent of gang members, while blacks accounted for 35 to 40 percent. White membership was around 10 percent.
The National Gang Center, citing FBI figures for the years 2007 to 2012 had gang related homicides as comprising around 13% of all homicides annually.