dodge
New member
Now you know it is not politically correct nor does it fit the narrative of the left to mention the WHO is committing most of the gun violence.
Stand for the Second Amendment
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
Now you know it is not politically correct nor does it fit the narrative of the left to mention the WHO is committing most of the gun violence.
dodge
New member
Thread: Stand for the Second Amendment
in 2016, America ranked 81st in the world based on its homicide rate per 100 000 - one of the highest for any developed nation!
its Canadian counterpart which shares 5250 miles of common border raked 140th in homicides - a difference of 59 nations.
Given that Canada has no 2nd Amendment, and although citizens are allowed to own hunting rifles and shotguns, handguns and semi automatic assault type weapons most commonly associated with mass shootings, are not available for private ownership.
Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario are on either side of the Detroit River, less than a mile apart - Detroit averages a homicide daily and has long held the dubious reputation as one of America's most violent cities, while Windsor recently went 27 months without a homicide!
Most Canadian citizens don't own a firearm and there is no popular political support to legislate the equivalent of a 2nd Amendment or adopt the American approach to gun ownership.
The relatively low rate of homicides involving firearms in Canada speaks for itself, and effectively undermines the arguments used to justify the current carnage that characterizes the gun culture in America!
Did you know if the 5 leading cities in the US were removed from the census that America would be 4th from the bottom on the gun violence list, and yes the 5 cities that make the US so high in gun violence are the ones with the most restrictive gun laws.
That's not true. Totally fake. You're posting false info that someone made up and spread around in emails and memes to people who aren't interested in reality, who in turn spread it around in emails and on web forums like this. Do you want to be one of those people?
If you doubt me, go find some legitimate sources to back up your claim. A random meme isn't a legitimate source.
While you're looking for those legitimate sources, maybe think about why someone would make up fake facts like that and spread them around?
dodge
New member
I know only the "facts" you post are credible right ? It is all really irreverent folks feelings do not negate the constitution, and the 2A is not dependent on the left's feel good accomplish nothing policies and whims.
So find some legitimate sources to back up your claim and post them for us.
dodge
New member
The bottom line is NO MATTER how much the left cries there are folks who will not give up their constitutional right to protect them self and their families.
My rights are not based on the left's nonsense and cowardice.
No, I didn't, but mostly because it's simply not true, which is probably why you don't link to a reputable source for it. That meme, which has been in circulation since at least 2015, normally looks like this:
"The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the world! But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C., and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders. Believe it or not these cities have the toughest gun control laws in the United States."
One version making the rounds this year is:
"The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the world. If you remove Chicago, Detroit, Washington, St. Louis and New Orleans, the United States is then 189th out of 193 countries in the entire world."
So it's a bogus and oft repeated and tweaked bit of propaganda from the outset. Snopes and Poltifact have a lot on the particulars. Essentially, we're nowhere near 3rd on that list to begin with. We are about the third largest country by population (so you'd expect us to be around 3rd in volume, but we aren't and good on us). As the latter puts it, controlling for population, criminologists use deaths per 100k of its citizenry. We rank about 94th by that scaling. We're the worst of Western democracies by a long shot, but we are still relative pikers compared to many third world countries.
New York state has nearly twenty million people, its rate of gun death around 4 per 100k of its citizens. Here in Alabama, with a population of not quite 5 million people, it's 21 per 100k. Dropping those cities (either list) from our death toll would remove less than 10 percent of our nation's homicides. That's not going to make anything like the difference the author of that meme is hoping for.
New York state has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Alabama is among the weakest.
According to PF: "The cities cited in the meme accounted for 1,568 of 17,250, or 9.1 percent, of all homicides reported to the FBI in 2016."
That would move us about four spots down on the list.
lain:What is empirically verifiable is that the states with the worst gun laws have dramatically higher gun violence deaths per 100k. Countries fare even worse, which is why among our democratic cousins we are last by a very long shot.
Universal gun laws work. And they can work without denying any American the right to bear arms.
Last edited:
Why are you walking away from what you said:
Show us some legitimate sources.
Last edited:
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
What we know is that there are an awful lot more people with lots of guns who are NOT committing most of the gun violence.
Peaceful, law abiding, innocent Americans. In short, 'the NRA'---whether we are card-carrying members or not, we are the NRA.
Some good news came out this month. The most recent verified data I'd seen regarding the number of civilian-owned guns in America had the count at 90 guns per 100 Americans, far and away the highest gun ownership rate on God's green earth.
Just this month, a nice little group called 'Small Arms Survey' released the following good news for all of us who believe just as the Second Amendment reads plainly, that the right of ALL people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed, "Civilian firearm ownership rates vary greatly across the world, with about 121 firearms for every 100 residents in the United States...!"
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...AS-Press-release-global-firearms-holdings.pdf
This means that civilian gun ownership rate over the Obama administration increased a full one-third, or a good 33%, in just eight years. That's annual growth rate of 3-4% each year that President Obama was in office. iow there's really something to the joke among the NRA, that President Obama was the greatest gun salesman in history!
The address for Small Arms Survey is below.
Small Arms Survey
Maison de la Paix, Chemin Eugène-Rigot 2E
1202 Geneva, Switzerland
And then, when you compare murder rates across the globe, you do find that there are a wide spectrum of data.
Spoiler
Putting this all together, which isn't too difficult, we have to conclude, with America far and away leading the small arms race among civilians (more than DOUBLE #2 Yemen), and yet we're not even in the upper part of the 1-10 murders per 100k scale, then this must mean that the guns are NOT the problem wrt murder rates.
Spoiler
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
This is a quote I saw on an internet meme in my tl recently. The quote may be apocryphal for all I know, but there is a truth in it that we all know:
"As a police officer in Metro Atlanta, it usually takes about 3 to 4 minutes for us to respond to emergencies. That is a long time to be defenseless."
You see? That's just true. If you do your duty as an American citizen, by bearing arms, you can produce a weapon in just seconds, which dramatically reduces the amount of time that you or your family or friends and neighbors are defenseless, waiting for the good police to arrive to help.
"As a police officer in Metro Atlanta, it usually takes about 3 to 4 minutes for us to respond to emergencies. That is a long time to be defenseless."
You see? That's just true. If you do your duty as an American citizen, by bearing arms, you can produce a weapon in just seconds, which dramatically reduces the amount of time that you or your family or friends and neighbors are defenseless, waiting for the good police to arrive to help.
dodge
New member
No, I didn't, but mostly because it's simply not true, which is probably why you don't link to a reputable source for it. That meme, which has been in circulation since at least 2015, normally looks like this:
"The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the world! But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C., and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders. Believe it or not these cities have the toughest gun control laws in the United States."
One version making the rounds this year is:
"The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the world. If you remove Chicago, Detroit, Washington, St. Louis and New Orleans, the United States is then 189th out of 193 countries in the entire world."
So it's a bogus and oft repeated and tweaked bit of propaganda from the outset. Snopes and Poltifact have a lot on the particulars. Essentially, we're nowhere near 3rd on that list to begin with. We are about the third largest country by population (so you'd expect us to be around 3rd in volume, but we aren't and good on us). As the latter puts it, controlling for population, criminologists use deaths per 100k of its citizenry. We rank about 94th by that scaling. We're the worst of Western democracies by a long shot, but we are still relative pikers compared to many third world countries.
New York state has nearly twenty million people, it's rate of gun death around 4 per 100k of its citizens. Here in Alabama, with a population of not quite 5 million people, it's 21 per 100k. Dropping those cities (either list) from our death toll would remove less than 10 percent of our nation's homicides. That's not going to make anything like the difference the author of that meme is hoping for.
New York state has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Alabama is among the weakest.
According to PF: "The cities cited in the meme accounted for 1,568 of 17,250, or 9.1 percent, of all homicides reported to the FBI in 2016."
That would move us about four spots down on the list.
What is empirically verifiable is that the states with the worst gun laws have dramatically higher gun violence deaths per 100k. Countries fare even worse, which is why among our democratic cousins we are last by a very long shot.
Universal gun laws work. And they can work without denying any American the right to bear arms.
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
All well and good but the end game of the left is confiscation and destruction of the 2A rights afforded in the constitution.
Why do you keep running away from what you said, Dodge.
Let's see some legitimate sources to verify what you said. Or are you okay with repeating lies and then running away when you're called on it?
Always glad to help people get out from under bad info. :thumb:
See, when information won't work for you all that's left is speculative fiction. In point of fact most Americans value the right. I do too as a lifelong gun owner. What a lot of people are getting behind is a more rational approach relating to its exercise, one with the actual interests of the people in mind instead of the gun lobby.
It's not a left/right issue, though the minority of gun extremists routinely try to make it that because they need the numbers they can't really produce. After Las Vegas, around 68% of Americans wanted tighter gun control measures. After Parkland that figure was closer to three quarters (NPR, March 2nd). While Democrats were more likely to support those tougher laws (84% in the first poll and 92% by this year) a lesser majority of Republicans felt similarly (55% last year's poll to 59% this year). Independents supported the measures 61% last year and 68% this year. LINK
Source: Ipsos surveyed 1,005 adults, including 351 Democrats, 341 Republicans and 203 independents. The poll has a credibility interval of 3.5 percentage points.
The strongest bipartisan support came on a few issues.
94% favored mandatory gun background checks for all buyers.
92% wanted background checks for the mentally ill factored.
82% favored raising the legal purchase age to 21.
81% favored banning bump stocks that allow semi-automatics to be transformed into de facto machineguns.
73% favored banning magazines that held more than 10 rounds.
72% favored banning assault style weapons.
dodge
New member
Since we live in a republic and NOT a democracy popular opinion does not rule the constitution (law) does
dodge
New member
lol, there is a difference between running and ignoring.
Let's count the things wrong in that...first, we don't have a duty to bear arms. Even in the days when we had militias in lieu of a standing army, which is why the amendment is written the way it is, we didn't have a duty, only a right. The meme sounds like one of those made up things that skews context. The context is this: most acts of gun violence occur before a police officer is called. The impact of police on the commission of gun related crimes is mostly found in their presence in a neighborhood.
But leaving off all that for the sake of considering the larger point you attempt to make. We have the most guns per citizen of any country on earth, yet we do the worst job of any industrialized Western democracy of keeping our citizens safe from gun violence.
More of the same isn't the answer, and the places with laws running contrary to your inclination do a dramatically better job of keeping their citizens safer from guns. An empirically verifiable, the math and numbers are there for you to see, better job. When you ban a thing in sale and production it becomes harder and harder to obtain and to use, more expensive to obtain and maintain. Attrition is the friend of strong gun laws, though in some areas the impact can be fairly immediate.
Essentially a representative democracy with protections, but popular opinion can literally lead to the amendment of that Constitution, as it did with slavery once enough people understood its evil, as it did with granting women the voting rights they should have had prior. As it did with civil rights laws.
Which brings us back to our current reality and the overdue look at an exercise that now includes weapons with a capacity that eliminates our ability to make the public safe while they remain in the easy flow of commerce. That's what more and more Americans are waking up to understanding. It's not a matter of if, but when the laws reflect that awakening.
Not really, not in this case. You ignoring being called out on what you said is running away from it.
Lets see some legitimate sources for that.
dodge
New member
Why would anyone with an ounce of common sense want new laws. There is no deterrent in the laws on the books. A person murders another and gets maybe 20 years. There are more than enough laws what they need is to exercise a little common sense. This whole universal background check is nothing more than the beginning of total confiscation.
dodge
New member
Called out ! Are you on drugs ? Don't confuse yourself by believing I care what you think or believe I DO NOT.