Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[Rosenritter]

Your obedience is flawed, Roman 3:23. Right, salvation is not dependent on works, nor is it dependent on obedience. Salvation is dependent upon the work and the person of Jesus Christ. This salvation becomes ours by faith alone, apart from works and obedience.

You should reconsider your gospel of disobedience.

Titus 1:13-16 KJV
(13) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
(16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[Jacob]

Show the lists.

Matthew 10:2-4 NASB - 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

Mark 3:16-19 NASB - 16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter), 17 and James, the [son] of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder"); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot; 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Luke 6:13-16 NASB - 13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: 14 Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James and John; and Philip and Bartholomew; 15 and Matthew and Thomas; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot; 16 Judas [the son] of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Acts 1:13 NASB - 13 When they had entered [the city,] they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas [the] [son] of James.

 

[Right Divider]

You should reconsider your gospel of disobedience.

Titus 1:13-16 KJV
(13) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
(16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Just quote any old passage that you like, eh?

 

[glorydaz]

Just quote any old passage that you like, eh?

Exactly, I nearly took the time to explain what Paul was saying there, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Right Divider]

Exactly, I nearly took the time to explain what Paul was saying there, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

It's taking scripture hostage.... very bad.

 

[Robert Pate]

You should reconsider your gospel of disobedience.

Titus 1:13-16 KJV
(13) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
(16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So you believe that you are righteous? I think that your righteousness is like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

 

[Robert Pate]

When obedience is works there is a problem. A person can obey or disobey, but they should obey. Sometimes there is inactivity. Once a person is saved there should not be any problem with their obedience, but it may be or may become performance based, which is not good.

Ephesians 2:8, 9.

Our salvation is not based upon anything that we do or anything that we have become. Our salvation is based upon the doing and the dying of Jesus. It is our faith that makes what he did ours and saves us.

 

[Jacob]

Our salvation is not based upon anything that we do or anything that we have become. Our salvation is based upon the doing and the dying of Jesus. It is our faith that makes what he did ours and saves us.

Faith is something that a saved person has. How do they have it? Have they placed faith in God or was faith a gift to them from God, or both?

 

[Robert Pate]

Faith is something that a saved person has. How do they have it? Have they placed faith in God or was faith a gift to them from God, or both?

Faith along with the Holy Spirit is granted to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

 

[Jacob]

Faith along with the Holy Spirit is granted to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Amen. That (the second verse here) was my verse.

 

[Rosenritter]

Matthew 10:2-4 NASB - 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

Mark 3:16-19 NASB - 16 And He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom He gave the name Peter), 17 and James, the [son] of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder"); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot; 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.

Luke 6:13-16 NASB - 13 And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles: 14 Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James and John; and Philip and Bartholomew; 15 and Matthew and Thomas; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot; 16 Judas [the son] of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

Acts 1:13 NASB - 13 When they had entered [the city,] they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas [the] [son] of James.

Do you realize that Judas Iscariot was dead at this time? If you read forward three verses they talk about it.

Acts 1:16-19 KJV
(16) Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
(17) For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
(18) Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
(19) And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.


It would be pretty freaky if Judas Iscariot joined them in that upstairs room at that time, don't you think? I'm not sure why this would be considered a contradiction.

 

[Rosenritter]

So you believe that you are righteous? I think that your righteousness is like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

I think you should stop saying that those in Christ do not need obedience to Christ. The opposite of obedience is disobedience, and disobedience to God is also the sin of rebellion, which we are told is as the sin of witchcraft.

Romans 1:1-6 KJV
(1) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
(2) (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
(3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
(5) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(6) Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:16 KJV
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If Paul is the servant of Jesus Christ, and he is subject to obedience to Christ. Saying that "Christians do not need to obey" is simply false and against the gospel of faith.

Romans 16:25-26 KJV
(25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Robert Pate]

I think you should stop saying that those in Christ do not need obedience to Christ. The opposite of obedience is disobedience, and disobedience to God is also the sin of rebellion, which we are told is as the sin of witchcraft.

Romans 1:1-6 KJV
(1) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
(2) (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
(3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
(5) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(6) Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:16 KJV
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If Paul is the servant of Jesus Christ, and he is subject to obedience to Christ. Saying that "Christians do not need to obey" is simply false and against the gospel of faith.

Romans 16:25-26 KJV
(25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Neither the law nor the church can take the place of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, John 16:13. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce obedience and holy living. The law will produce sin, Romans 7:7-12. This is why the law fails to produce anything but sin.

 

[Jacob]

Do you realize that Judas Iscariot was dead at this time? If you read forward three verses they talk about it.

Acts 1:16-19 KJV
(16) Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
(17) For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
(18) Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
(19) And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.


It would be pretty freaky if Judas Iscariot joined them in that upstairs room at that time, don't you think? I'm not sure why this would be considered a contradiction.

It isn't considered a contradiction. Acts has eleven names can be noted as well.

 

[Rosenritter]

Neither the law nor the church can take the place of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and teacher, John 16:13. It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce obedience and holy living. The law will produce sin, Romans 7:7-12. This is why the law fails to produce anything but sin.

Which brings us full circle: stop preaching against obedience. Paul was very clear in Romans that we should be obedient to our faith in Christ, and that obedience shows to whom we serve... yet you practically foam at the mouth at the mention of the word obedience.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
(17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Hebrews 5:8-9 KJV
(8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
(9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Read Hebrews 5:9 above carefully and please note the words: the Son is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Salvation, it says. A temporary salvation? A mere salvation from an earthly oppressor? No, Eternal salvation. Unto all it says? No, not unto all, but only unto all that obey him.

 

[Rosenritter]

It isn't considered a contradiction. Acts has eleven names can be noted as well.

Judas Iscariot was already dead and wouldn't be included as a living apostle. I'm afraid if you have some other point I've totally missed it. Would you please plainly spell out what you mean?

 

[Robert Pate]

Which brings us full circle: stop preaching against obedience. Paul was very clear in Romans that we should be obedient to our faith in Christ, and that obedience shows to whom we serve... yet you practically foam at the mouth at the mention of the word obedience.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
(17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Hebrews 5:8-9 KJV
(8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
(9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Read Hebrews 5:9 above carefully and please note the words: the Son is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Salvation, it says. A temporary salvation? A mere salvation from an earthly oppressor? No, Eternal salvation. Unto all it says? No, not unto all, but only unto all that obey him.

Your very best obedience still falls short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. All that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will try to live holy lives, but knowing that they fail to measure up to the righteousness of God. We all struggle with sin, Romans 7.

 

[clefty]

Your very best obedience still falls short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. All that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will try to live holy lives, but knowing that they fail to measure up to the righteousness of God. We all struggle with sin, Romans 7.

Well well well...that is a shift...

That is a far step from “there is no law”...

HalleluYah

Of course our obedience falls short...happily our obedience is not to attain or gain or earn salvation...but because we already have it as a gift from Him

Yes indeed all that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will try to Iive holy lives...and yet still struggle with sin because it is revealed as the LAW REMAINS...and sin remains as we are only perfected at that twinkling of the eye...

Even Paul admitted doing what he hated and not doing what he loved...

It is good to see you are closer to following HIM HIS WAYS...and trying to live a Holy life...guided by the Spirit into all good things...including keeping the still binding Law

 

[clefty]

Which brings us full circle: stop preaching against obedience. Paul was very clear in Romans that we should be obedient to our faith in Christ, and that obedience shows to whom we serve... yet you practically foam at the mouth at the mention of the word obedience.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
(17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Hebrews 5:8-9 KJV
(8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
(9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Read Hebrews 5:9 above carefully and please note the words: the Son is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Salvation, it says. A temporary salvation? A mere salvation from an earthly oppressor? No, Eternal salvation. Unto all it says? No, not unto all, but only unto all that obey him.

Yup...here are they that keep the commandments...if you love Him...

It’s not just Lord! Lord! But those that DO the will of His Father...

 

[Robert Pate]

Well well well...that is a shift...

That is a far step from “there is no law”...

HalleluYah

Of course our obedience falls short...happily our obedience is not to attain or gain or earn salvation...but because we already have it as a gift from Him

Yes indeed all that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will try to Iive holy lives...and yet still struggle with sin because it is revealed as the LAW REMAINS...and sin remains as we are only perfected at that twinkling of the eye...

Even Paul admitted doing what he hated and not doing what he loved...

It is good to see you are closer to following HIM HIS WAYS...and trying to live a Holy life...guided by the Spirit into all good things...including keeping the still binding Law

The law may be binding for you, but not for me. I will continue to live by faith.