Nang
TOL Subscriber
The creation exists. There is no language in the bible that says God exists like His creation exists. The word exist or existence is not biblical, but philosophical.
God is. His name is "I Am."
No beginning. No end.
Richard Holland: God, Time, and the Incarnation Pt 3
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
The creation exists. There is no language in the bible that says God exists like His creation exists. The word exist or existence is not biblical, but philosophical.
God is. His name is "I Am."
No beginning. No end.
Just because there is a beginning of a wedding, does not mean that there was no time before it. Surely, you understand this.
Yes and yes. Are you saying before there was something to measure, that measuring did not exist?
Are you a pantheist?
God's
Whose communication? Man's or God's?[/QUOTE]God's
I think your "limited" view of God prevents you from understanding this subject.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I understand you resort to analogy to avoid giving answer to your own claims.
The measure of time in this creation was day and night. In this way time was part of the creative purpose of God. It began.
God has no beginning or end.
:chuckle:
God's actions and communications come from His Person, and mans' actions and communications come from each creature.
There is difference between eternal God and men.
How you think I limit God by attributing eternality to His Person alone, is beyond my understanding.
To deny God is the Creator of all, including time and it's purposeful measure, is placing unseemly limitation upon His Being.
As pointed out in your quote, you said that God exists.
Nevertheless, if you don't want to use that term, (and say that God exists), that is fine by me.
The point is, infinite is uncreated, just as time is uncreated. "They" is because God is.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
"Time" is defined by its measure.
Infinity ("uncreate") cannot be measured, so it cannot be defined as "time."
Who is the "they" you throw in here, pray tell?
What measures time?
When did God not move?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Elapsed seconds, minutes, hours, days, nights, weeks, months years . . . occurrence of events . . . celestial activity.
All a part and purpose of this creation.
God established the measure of time, and used time accordingly:
"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son . . ." Galatians 4:4
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Do you define and measure God according to continuous action, movement, energy?
Is that how God has revealed His Person, purposes, and will?
This is well beyond her comprehension. She cannot see past what is created. She thinks that everything that "exists" within creation, must have been created. Nang cannot see that movement, communication, time, are not created things, but are within God's infinite reality.
No, I'm saying that movement is uncreated. God moves.
God did not create communication. God communicates.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I agree with this . . . but what does that have to do with time? How can movements or communications issuing forth from the Godhead be measured, and thereby be defined as "time" except in this creation?
We can only understand time as God has revealed it and established its measurements, that we can see and observe in this creation.
The rest is philosophical theory only . . . not biblical truth.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
None of us can.
The only thing we know is creation. Only God is uncreated.
If we have been given time and its measurements in creation, then time is created.
If you could cite Holy Scripture to back up your theory, you would have much better chance convincing me it is truth.
(And what is "reality?"
)That's a good start.
They are uncreated, and yet we have communication and movement within creation.
The "move" and the "speech" are events ("Let Us").
God has moved and spoke outside this creation. There is time outside this creation, it's just not measured by those things created.
Does not mean there is no time outside that which we observe within creation.
"God is waiting..." Heb 10:13
And one could add much more to that list.
Such as love, truth, life, ..........
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yes, God acts and communicates with His creation.
What does that have to with created time?
So you believe God acts and communicates within a measure of time in eternity, just like He does in this creation?
Where does the bible affirm this to your thinking?
So how do you define this uncreated time? What is its purpose? What need does eternal God have of time?
Doesn't mean there is time outside of creation. It is pure speculation, IMO.
Time was created and established in this creation, for the purpose of working salvation and reconciling God with His creatures through Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 10:13 speaks of the measure of time until all salvation is completed, and man is raised to glory in the kingdom of heaven with Christ.
Companion passage relating to Hebrews 10:13 are I Corinthians 15:20-58, and II Peter 3:1-14
(Please note the absence of our earthly measurement of time, with the Lord in II Peter 3:8)
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Tambora,
I do not mind discussing "time" with you and S0ZO. It is good exercise for all of us.
But I do mind your stating I have no conception or comprehension of God's love, truth, and life.
This is cruelly insulting and you bear false witness against my heartfelt witness of faith in Jesus Christ.
This thread is about your OT theories about time . . not about putting me down just to win a debate.
Time, space and matter which make up the ''universe' as named by science are not only created they are found in the first verse of scripture.
In the beginning (of time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter). Time was set in motion on the first day and on the fourth day the means of measuring time was set on courses above.
In the beginning (of time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter). Time was set in motion on the first day and on the fourth day the means of measuring time was set on courses above.
And you are a silly, ignorant person.