Why don't you try interpreting it in context? The verse cannot be made to say God created all things including the chocolate bar I ate.
Proof from the Bible that God is In Time
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Why don't you try interpreting it in context? The verse cannot be made to say God created all things including the chocolate bar I ate.
Try the Hebrew instead of proof texting an imperfect translation. This verse needs to be translated and interpreted properly, not twisted like Calvinists do with it to support their wrong deterministic views.
http://reknew.org/2008/01/isaiah-457lamentations-337-38/
Using your logic, love is also created and would make love His god. Seriously, your thinking is illogical and shallow.
God did not create my iMac. If your proof texting leads to this, then your are dead wrong.
God experienced relationships in His triune being. Love, communication, fellowship, thinking, acting, feeling, etc. presume duration (time), even before material creation and clocks.
Not experiencing sequence is a limitation and illogical for a personal being. Time is not a limitation on God like it is for us. You are wrong to assume time must be a limitation (your understanding of the concept of time is wrong...wrong assumption=wrong conclusion).
This is referring to material creation. The problem is that not everything is a created 'thing'. Love is not a thing created in Genesis, but is eternal with the triune God. Time is not a created thing. This is a wrong assumption on your part. Can you see time under a microscope? A clock is a created thing, but not created by God! The time it measures is not created since time should not be confused with measures of it. Joy is also not a created thing, but an experience of a personal being (cannot touch, feel, smell, see, hear it).
Not everything is a thing and not every thing is created by God (machine guns, etc.).
Even dopey atheists get this, so quit embarrassing Christianity as clueless.
Really? So some man created a machine gun and God said to himself
"what the heck is that"?.
You really like to stretch the truth. I'm not saying that "God created hand guns, etc. I'm saying that He knew that they would be created. He created the person who would create them.
You're the one with atheist leanings. The way you put God in a box with no windows. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I did not say that. We agree that some man, not God, created the machine gun. Just because he created man and material does not mean he creates the object (likewise, a child sinning is not the parent's fault).
The fact is that man, not God, gave names to all the animals. God has given us the ability to create, but the future is at least partially open and known as such, even by an omniscient God. It is not a clear fact that God foreknew every type of car and Apple computer, Steve Jobs, etc. from eternity past. Steve would not have existed to be known and to create computers if his parents did not freely get together, procreate, etc. He also could have been aborted or died in his youth.
You beg the question without proof by assuming the future is deterministically, fatalistically closed or that eternal now is true (it is not) or that God sees the non-existent future before the agents bring it to pass.
I am not atheistic, but you are incoherent, illogical, and UNBIBLICAL in your views on this subject. You just know too little to realize how wrong and problematic your views are. This is not an arrogant statement, but fact.
www.opentheism.org
http://reknew.org/
Nope.
Good refutation: 'nope'.
That's because open theism is crap. Plus you have presented that paragraph of unbiblical trash before plus the links.
You are rejecting a straw man version of Open Theism. Are you a Calvinist?:angrymob:
:doh:
Even the invisible is tangible to some extent. Time is not. At all. And it never will be, because it is nothing more than an idea.
Are you seriously this stupid?
Are you saying God didn't experience before creation? Just how daft are you?
Does God do everything all at once or is he free to do other wise?
Was there a time in God before he created time for us?
--Dave
Was there a time in God before he created time for us?
--Dave
All what? Is God a piece of bacon?
Because of this post I received my first EVER negative rep and comment in all of my years here on TheologyOnline.
I received it from user sky and it says...to me...
That's real classy.
Thank you.
zippy2006
New member
Presumably you are saying that because time is "merely an idea" God therefore has no power over it or way to influence it; it is not something that God can be "outside of," He must simply accept it as a fact as we do.
Two questions:
1. Einstein has showed through his theory of General Relativity that different bodies can be shown to age differently under different circumstances. Given the technology necessary, we could propel someone to a speed near that of light for 20 years, after which they would barely have aged at all. Is time still an intangible idea?
2. What if I grant, for the sake of argument, that time is a sort of Platonic Form? What if time is a truth like "2+2=4" that is not tangible and is only an idea. Does it follow that God cannot change that truth? Can God not make 2+2=5? I certainly cannot comprehend how such a thing would be possible, but that does not mean God could not do it. :idunno:
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