Pope Apologizes to Satan!

Spitfire

New member
Didn't stop them from roasting heretics did it?
Things did get out of hand sometimes, but a lot of the burning / torture / persecution that is always pinned on the Catholic Church was primarily the work of secular authorities, or the doings of the same Protestants who originally started spreading the same anti-Catholic propaganda almost 500 years ago that atheists and pagans still use today. If you ask me, Christianity (well, Catholicism anyway) started getting "nicer" after St. Pius V restored order at the end of the 16th, during which time he also presided over the battle of Lepanto, which basically saved Europe from the Ottoman Empire, after which the hysteria, desperation, and confusion caused by corruption within the Church, the Reformation, and the apparently imminent demise of Europe were less of a factor.
 

cursuswalker

BANNED
Banned
Things did get out of hand sometimes, but a lot of the burning / torture / persecution that is always pinned on the Catholic Church was primarily the work of secular authorities, or the doings of the same Protestants who originally started spreading the same anti-Catholic propaganda almost 500 years ago that atheists and pagans still use today. If you ask me, Christianity (well, Catholicism anyway) started getting "nicer" after St. Pius V restored order at the end of the 16th, during which time he also presided over the battle of Lepanto, which basically saved Europe from the Ottoman Empire, after which the hysteria, desperation, and confusion caused by corruption within the Church, the Reformation, and the apparently imminent demise of Europe were less of a factor.

Hey, personally I couldn't give a damn whether the people doing the burning thought bread turned into flesh, and wine into blood, or not.

They were all complicit in this brutality. In fact the Catholics were, to their SLIGHT credit, the only ones who at least had some kind of due process.

But to say this was down to the secular authorities is to try to hide the reality of these acts being a manifestation of Religions having too much power and no accountability.
 

Thunder's Muse

New member
Much to Heinrich Kramer's consternation, Catholic theologians routinely refused to endorse Malleus Maleficarum (along with most everything else he ever wrote or did.) It was placed on Rome's list of banned publications by Pope Innocent VIII in 1490, only a few years after its initial publication (though it went on to be re-published and widely circulated despite the Church's wishes.)



Interesting....where can I read that for myself?

still did a lot of damage to innocent people.
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
well first of all... allah and jehovah are one and the same.. soo that kinda doesnt work... and second of all The lord lives in your heart, and your heart is as according to the bible, a temple of the "holy spirit"
Nope. Allah and Jehovah are not the same.
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. 1 Corinthians 6:19,20
Nice, but irrelevant.
who are you to say that he wasnt praying to your god (jehova)....and that he was praying to the islamic version of him...futher more....."and him only shalt thou serve" Isnt he serving the lord by trying to stop the slaughter thats been going on 4 thousands of years, by humbling himself and engaging in the symbolic act of praying in their mosque? which by doing he is showing that he respects and tolerates their beliefs.
Which is idolatry in its most heinous form. C ya. :wave2:
 

Quincy

New member
Things did get out of hand sometimes, but a lot of the burning / torture / persecution that is always pinned on the Catholic Church was primarily the work of secular authorities, or the doings of the same Protestants who originally started spreading the same anti-Catholic propaganda almost 500 years ago that atheists and pagans still use today. If you ask me, Christianity (well, Catholicism anyway) started getting "nicer" after St. Pius V restored order at the end of the 16th, during which time he also presided over the battle of Lepanto, which basically saved Europe from the Ottoman Empire, after which the hysteria, desperation, and confusion caused by corruption within the Church, the Reformation, and the apparently imminent demise of Europe were less of a factor.

And that makes things better and forgives the past how? No one is going to care one bit about the present until the "church" issues a true formal apology. That isn't going to happen, and even if it did it wouldn't be enough. Should judgment day actually happen, it will be fun to see what becomes of your "church".
 

Quincy

New member
Allah is the Arabic word for God. Arab Christians call God Allah.

Are you saying that God, Dieu and Gott are not the same god?

Christian/Jew/Muslim's God is all Abraham's God. But we can't fault them for having not read other religious manuscripts and seeing that. Or can we? :think:
 

Spitfire

New member
Interesting....where can I read that for myself?
Unfortunately, everyone seems to refer to the Wikipedia article, sometimes simply copying and pasting from it directly, and I've discovered there is a problem there in that the "index librorum prohibitorum" didn't yet exist at the time that Malleus Maleficarum was written. So it may not have been explicitly condemned by Innocent VIII but it is true that he did not commission Kramer and Sprenger to write it, nor did he ever give it his stamp of approval. Whatever really happened in 1490, it is probably pretty safe to assume that Innocent VIII was not happy when Kramer deceptively used the papal proclamation "Summis Desiderantes" to make it appear as though he had given the book his approval.

Furthermore, though both Kramer and Sprenger were inquisitors, Sprenger was well-respected while Kramer had a reputation (among Catholic theologians and even other inquisitors) of being obnoxious, possibly a little insane, and obsessed with witches. It is possible, likely even, that the whole book was written by Kramer who then decided to give Sprenger the honorary title of co-author so as to further help give the book a semblance of credibility. Sprenger, who died in 1494, was unavailable to object in the 16th century when Malles Maleficarum really came into its own.

Here is one pagan's take on it:
http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/_remembrance/malleus_maleficarum.htm
 

Spitfire

New member
And that makes things better and forgives the past how? No one is going to care one bit about the present until the "church" issues a true formal apology. That isn't going to happen, and even if it did it wouldn't be enough. Should judgment day actually happen, it will be fun to see what becomes of your "church".
Let's imagine that it might happen. What would you consider an acceptably true apology? Because, I have been under the impression, that short of agreeing to cease to exist, and that it has always been wrong about everything, not much that the Catholic Church says or does will ever be considered satisfactory occasion to have a higher opinion of Catholicism, whether one be Evangelical, pagan, atheist or otherwise.
 

Thunder's Muse

New member
Unfortunately, everyone seems to refer to the Wikipedia article, sometimes simply copying and pasting from it directly, and I've discovered there is a problem there in that the "index librorum prohibitorum" didn't yet exist at the time that Malleus Maleficarum was written. So it may not have been explicitly condemned by Innocent VIII but it is true that he did not commission Kramer and Sprenger to write it, nor did he ever give it his stamp of approval. Whatever really happened in 1490, it is probably pretty safe to assume that Innocent VIII was not happy when Kramer deceptively used the papal proclamation "Summis Desiderantes" to make it appear as though he had given the book his approval.

Furthermore, though both Kramer and Sprenger were inquisitors, Sprenger was well-respected while Kramer had a reputation (among Catholic theologians and even other inquisitors) of being obnoxious, possibly a little insane, and obsessed with witches. It is possible, likely even, that the whole book was written by Kramer who then decided to give Sprenger the honorary title of co-author so as to further help give the book a semblance of credibility. Sprenger, who died in 1494, was unavailable to object in the 16th century when Malles Maleficarum really came into its own.

Here is one pagan's take on it:
http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/_remembrance/malleus_maleficarum.htm



LOL! I never use Wikipedia..

anyway, very interesting..I always like to know all I can about such things...good or bad....Thanks :)
 

Quincy

New member
Let's imagine that it might happen. What would you consider an acceptably true apology? Because, I have been under the impression, that short of agreeing to cease to exist, and that it has always been wrong about everything, not much that the Catholic Church says or does will ever be considered satisfactory occasion to have a higher opinion of Catholicism, whether one be Evangelical, pagan, atheist or otherwise.

I think any of us who don't subscribe to a world scale faith would forget the past were we still not judged. Most of us equate judgment to being the cause of those atrocities and there is a lingering stigma associated with judgment. Should more dominate faiths tolerate newer growing faiths that still uphold the some morals and principles alot of the stigma would disappear. As it stands, there are more people who live in bigotry than love, and that is what continues the stereotype.
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
Let's imagine that it might happen. What would you consider an acceptably true apology? Because, I have been under the impression, that short of agreeing to cease to exist, and that it has always been wrong about everything, not much that the Catholic Church says or does will ever be considered satisfactory occasion to have a higher opinion of Catholicism, whether one be Evangelical, pagan, atheist or otherwise.
I do believe you are correct, Ma'am! These people have no interest in the rightness or wrongness of the Church's position, only in bringing the Church down. Any exploitable sign of weakness will do.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I do believe you are correct, Ma'am! These people have no interest in the rightness or wrongness of the Church's position, only in bringing the Church down. Any exploitable sign of weakness will do.

He does that just to get a positive rep from me
 

One Eyed Jack

New member
Allah is the Arabic word for God.

No, it isn't. Ilah is the Arabic word for god. "Allah" is a contraction (Arabic doesn't have apostrophes) for "al ilah," which means "the God." I think it's also the name of an old Arab moon-god.

Arab Christians call God Allah.

Some of them do, but that's not His name. Neither is "God" for that matter. His name is YHWH (Hebrew doesn't have vowels).

Note: all words using foreign letters are transliterated into English.
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
No, it isn't. Ilah is the Arabic word for god. "Allah" is a contraction (Arabic doesn't have apostrophes) for "al ilah," which means "the God." I think it's also the name of an old Arab moon-god.
Yes, indeed! It was one of a multitude of Arab tribal gods. Muhammed won.
Some of them do, but that's not His name. Neither is "God" for that matter. His name is YHWH (Hebrew doesn't have vowels).
If I may, Hebrew doesn't have a "W" either. It would render YHVH. From Exodus 3:14 KJV, the transliteration is hayah asher hayah "I am that I am."
Note: all words using foreign letters are transliterated into English.
Noted.
 

Aimiel

New member
God's never given us His Name (if indeed He has one) but has magnified His Word even above all His Name.
 
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