Right Divider
Body part
You really are a very dim bulb!
ECT Paul did everything of Mark 16.
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
- Start date
Grab a Concordance, trace out the word "perfect" say, in Matthew, Luke, John, and Acts, towards arriving at that word's intended sense by WHERE and HOW it is being used in those passages, and OFTEN, in contrast to another word or phrase in those same passages.
Once you have a sense of the word "perfect" through all that, THEN look at the Greek.
And THEN apply all that to 1 Cor. 13:10; see what you THEN understand as to what Paul meant by "But when that which is perfect is come..."
Of coarse, if you take my suggestion wrongly intended towards you that is on you. All I have done is made a suggestion. Fair enough?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Know in part- supernatural knowledge of the incomplete word of God
Prophesy in part- supernatural speaking forth of the incomplete word of God
That which is perfect- the complete word of God, the full revelation
That which is in part is done away- supernatural gift of knowledge, supernatural gift of prophesying, and tongues for good measure.
How can it be anything else?
Prophesy in part- supernatural speaking forth of the incomplete word of God
That which is perfect- the complete word of God, the full revelation
That which is in part is done away- supernatural gift of knowledge, supernatural gift of prophesying, and tongues for good measure.
How can it be anything else?
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
You do not understand or have any of the gifts.
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
These gifts describe the power of Christ IN His Body.
LA
Try looking up how the word "perfect" is used in those passages in Matthew, Luke, John, and Acts, and then compare how it is used in 1 Cor. 13:10, as I suggested.
Right Divider
Body part
LA doesn't care. LA is a robot.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
You may be partially right.
The words of the Bible are always right.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
LA
Wow! We would not know that, if it were not for you, Christ rejector.
And your yellow painting just mesmerizes us all.
Get saved.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Because there are alternatives.
Define prophecy
Who or what is perfect?
I Corinthians 13:12
Who is it that we will see face to face?
I John 3:1-2 tells us.
You do realize, Oatmeal that the Lord Himself not only appeared to Paul, but informed him that He'd be doing so from time to time, Acts 26:16.
And that prior to that, the Twelve saw the Lord in His glory (with Moses and Elijah in theirs)
And again later, after He returned from having gone to the Father just after His resurrection to take on the Glory that was His since before the foundation of the world, John 17:5; 20:17.
He returned from that; appeared to them; taught them for forty days and then ascended once more unto the Father, John 20:29; Acts 1:4; 2 Peter 1:16.
1 Cor. 13:12's "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known," is in the sense of now, in Paul's day; when mirrors did not exist and shiny metal was used - shiny metal unable to reflect one's face in the detail that others are able to know one's face in.
What Paul is saying is now we know at the time of his having written that passage; now we see the Mystery of God's will, in part, a bit here, a part there.
And that was, in the measure of every part - each saint bringing their gifted part to the table that all might profit withal, Rom. 12:6, for example.
Many years later, Paul will at last be able to relate the following about God in Christ by the Spirit, in Ephesians 1:
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Towards what intent was this now full, complete, or "perfect" information, is the question most fail to address...
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Lol - in the above, you're like someone who believes his filing his taxes in accordance with the Federal Tax Law that was in place under a former Tax System is the correct instruction to follow because "well, here it is in writing; why can't others see this!"
Its why merely posting the passages fall on deaf ears.
Nah! Say it ain't so!
Seriously, though, that was when that which was in part was still in part.
I can understand how someone might conclude their own inner dialogue as being the Spirit, along with circumstances, chance, reading into things and so on, not to leave out, a big fat juicy portion of confirmation bias...
And I respect people I consider have confused the one with the other.
I just don't agree with you on this because it is not what I have learned about these things over the years of my own time in the Word studying them out.
I doubt we will see eye to eye on this.
The best to you in that, as I believe it is not of the Lord. Rather, the carnal mind.
Respectfully.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Nah! Say it ain't so!
Seriously, though, that was when that which was in part was still in part.
I can understand how someone might conclude their own inner dialogue as being the Spirit, along with circumstances, chance, reading into things and so on, not to leave out, a big fat juicy portion of confirmation bias...
And I respect people I consider have confused the one with the other.
I just don't agree with you on this because it is not what I have learned about these things over the years of my own time in the Word studying them out.
I doubt we will see eye to eye on this.
The best to you in that, as I believe it is not of the Lord. Rather, the carnal mind.
Respectfully.
Are you saying that the instructions of 1 Cor.ch 14 are not now needed since the instructions of 1 Cor ch 14 are written in the Bible?
LA
Might as well ask the same of the Law's 600 plus commandments, statutes, ordinances, etc.
Consider why Paul not only wrote those instructions to them, but as a negative.
Because he was reminding them of what they already knew as to how the gifts operated.
As a reproof of their behavior. In other words; of their failure to exercise the gifts in the manner they were supposed to operate them.
He was not instructing them; he was reproving them.
Re-read chapters 1 thru 3.
All those gifts and yet they were yet carnal, immature, babes.
He is not writing instruction. He is reproving their failure to do what they already know to do - for they each have the Spirit to guide them. They are behaving as if they don't know how to.
If your assembly has the gifts, you don't need those chapters - collectively you know their information.
As they knew it collectively in each's sharing of his "part." Each had a measure "in part" towards "when ye come together."
The intended result of that was their collective unity as a local assembly. As with the Romans in Romans 12; the Ephesians in Ephesians 4; and so on.
The intended end of that via the gifts working in the measure of every part - in each assembly member within the various assemblies - had been each assembly's unity as a local assembly - the "we all of" Ephesians 4's:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Now, here is the thing about all this information I have shared - I am posting all this off the top of my head. It is just there in my inward man for me to tap into as a result of my time in "that which is perfect."
I have that - we all now have access to it all - 2 Tim. 3's:
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Danoh,
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
So you are saying NOT all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness today.
LA
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
So you are saying NOT all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness today.
LA