PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

KingdomRose

New member
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
 

Tnkrbl123!

New member
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?

when you said "those conditions on earth that humans can eventually have" can you explain what you mean by this please? I think you are talking about when Jesus returns and gathers up all of His creation and we will finally live in the new earth and God will dwell here with us for eternity, just like God intended life to be for us when He put adam and eve in the garden of eden before their fall. Well at least when I think of heaven that is what I think about and look forward to. Is that what you mean also?
Or do you mean that you think it possible for us to live that way right now, that it is obtainable now in our current state of the world?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
:kookoo:
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?

Its a two phase thing.

First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

Then later only Heaven.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

LA
 

daqq

Well-known member
Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

Its a two phase thing.

First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

Then later only Heaven.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

LA

Deuteronomy 11:18-21
18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and shall combine them as an evidence against your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes
[supernal: that your "eye be single", Matthew 6:22].
19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house,
[every man is a "house" in the doctrine of the Master] and when you walk along the Way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house,
[supernal: arms-hands-deeds] and upon your gates: [for every man is also likened to a city with gates in the doctrine of the Master: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden]
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which YHWH has sworn unto your fathers to give them;
as the days of the heavens upon the earth.

Revelation 21:1-6 KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
[2Cor 5:17] And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done.
[γεγοναν!] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Believe it or not Paul is quoting Yohanan here:

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore, if any be in Meshiah,
[the same is] a new creature: Old things are passed away, behold, γεγονεν! [It is done!] all things [γεγονεν - are become] new!

:)
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.

The Lord's prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, they kingdom come, thy will be done,

on earth as it is heaven..."

Bible also talks about new heaven and new earth.

We should read the bible contextually: meaning what is the theme of the bible, Lon.
 

Lon

Well-known member
The Lord's prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, they kingdom come, thy will be done,

on earth as it is heaven..."

Bible also talks about new heaven and new earth.

We should read the bible contextually: meaning what is the theme of the bible, Lon.

Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon

I am thinking for myself.

It is contextual.

So you don't believe we will have peaceful earth?
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon


so what is your version? Do you know?
 

musterion

Well-known member
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?

Now where have I heard all this before?

Oh yes...
 

musterion

Well-known member
818Ipooy9YL.jpg
 

KingdomRose

New member
when you said "those conditions on earth that humans can eventually have" can you explain what you mean by this please? I think you are talking about when Jesus returns and gathers up all of His creation and we will finally live in the new earth and God will dwell here with us for eternity, just like God intended life to be for us when He put adam and eve in the garden of eden before their fall. Well at least when I think of heaven that is what I think about and look forward to. Is that what you mean also?
Or do you mean that you think it possible for us to live that way right now, that it is obtainable now in our current state of the world?

You may have missed the whole point of the Bible. It tells us of the original purpose for the earth and humans, and it was for mankind to live on this beautiful planet forever & for us to take care of the earth and everything in it.

"This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, the Former of the earth, the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

"God blessed them and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it..." (Genesis 1:28)

"And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)


Why do you think God made this wonderful physical Earth and put humans on it if he didn't want us to live here forever? Why do you think his plans changed? I don't believe that he did change his plans! Jesus came to give us our perfect lives back, (which Adam lost for the human race) and because of what he did, we can look forward to living on this planet forever.

God and Jesus will not literally come down to this earth and live here. How preposterous! Imagine---the maker of the sun and all the galaxies actually living on this earth! How can you maintain such a ridiculous line of thought? Clearly the so-called destruction of the earth that Peter seemingly talked about has another meaning, that the earth will be regenerated and cleaned up, and Jesus himself will reign OVER the earth. In Revelation 21 God "comes down" in the sense that his attention is focused on the earth, and he aims to guide his people in their endeavors, through the offices of his Son and the New Jerusalem (Jesus' co-rulers).

We can't have the lives NOW that we were intended to have, because we are still under the influence of Satan and his rulership of the world (I John 5:19), but the Bible tells us that Jesus will soon set up his own government over the earth and THEN we will be able to live in peace, with healthy, perfect bodies. (See Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44; Job 33:25.)
 

KingdomRose

New member
Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.

Oh no. If you really examine the scriptures you can see that what I am saying is true. There are scriptures in the Bible that you never knew were there, I guarantee you. A fantastic website is:Link removed, You'll really find answers there.
 
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marhig

Well-known member
Deuteronomy 11:18-21
18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and shall combine them as an evidence against your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes
[supernal: that your "eye be single", Matthew 6:22].
19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house,
[every man is a "house" in the doctrine of the Master] and when you walk along the Way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house,
[supernal: arms-hands-deeds] and upon your gates: [for every man is also likened to a city with gates in the doctrine of the Master: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden]
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which YHWH has sworn unto your fathers to give them;
as the days of the heavens upon the earth.

Revelation 21:1-6 KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
[2Cor 5:17] And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done.
[γεγοναν!] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Believe it or not Paul is quoting Yohanan here:

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore, if any be in Meshiah,
[the same is] a new creature: Old things are passed away, behold, γεγονεν! [It is done!] all things [γεγονεν - are become] new!

:)

I agree regarding 2 Corinthians 5:17, it's the new birth.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
You may have missed the whole point of the Bible. It tells us of the original purpose for the earth and humans, and it was for mankind to live on this beautiful planet forever & for us to take care of the earth and everything in it.

"This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, the Former of the earth, the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

"God blessed them and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it..." (Genesis 1:28)

"And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)


Why do you think God made this wonderful physical Earth and put humans on it if he didn't want us to live here forever? Why do you think his plans changed? I don't believe that he did change his plans! Jesus came to give us our perfect lives back, (which Adam lost for the human race) and because of what he did, we can look forward to living on this planet forever.

God and Jesus will not literally come down to this earth and live here. How preposterous! Imagine---the maker of the sun and all the galaxies actually living on this earth! How can you maintain such a ridiculous line of thought? Clearly the so-called destruction of the earth that Peter seemingly talked about has another meaning, that the earth will be regenerated and cleaned up, and Jesus himself will reign OVER the earth. In Revelation 21 God "comes down" in the sense that his attention is focused on the earth, and he aims to guide his people in their endeavors, through the offices of his Son and the New Jerusalem (Jesus' co-rulers).

We can't have the lives NOW that we were intended to have, because we are still under the influence of Satan and his rulership of the world (I John 5:19), but the Bible tells us that Jesus will soon set up his own government over the earth and THEN we will be able to live in peace, with healthy, perfect bodies. (See Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44; Job 33:25.)

You make sense.

thank you:)
 

KingdomRose

New member
Its a two phase thing.

First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

Then later only Heaven.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

LA

Huh? Why do you think "later" we accept the terms of "only heaven"? Why not "only earth" the way we were first created? Revelation is mostly SYMBOLIC, and it describes the relationship between humans here on earth and the glorious heavens guiding us. Peter speaks of all the EVIL things that are dissolved, not the actual planet. What "elements" would literally dissolve? What is there in the physical creation that needs to be destroyed? It is only the "ungodly people" who will be revealed and undergo destruction.

"According to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of hold and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. [Did the planet actually get destroyed? No.] By the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men." Not the planet. It will survive, just like the planet survived in Noah's day. Only the ungodly will go.
 
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