Jesus was sent to teach us love God and one another. Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone even for self defense, many of them were killed instead. Jesus says to imitate Him.
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
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Jesus was sent to teach us love God and one another. Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone even for self defense, many of them were killed instead. Jesus says to imitate Him.
So instead of answering my simple question, and providing your own argument, you simply refuse to answer? Why? Is it that your position is untenable? God tells us to be prepared to give an answer. It doesn't seem like you're very prepared.
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marhig
Well-known member
Jesus taught us to pray to our father to ask for forgiveness, as we forgive those whose trespass against us. It's a personal thing.
I don't believe it's right to kill anyone!
marhig
Well-known member
To answer simply, no!
So you don't love the victim's family? You don't love justice?
God said the murderer should be executed. Who are you to say that we should not?
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Should we forgive people who have not repented?
So you place your beliefs above God's commands?
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marhig
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Where did God say to execute a murderer, in the new testament ?
marhig
Well-known member
That's between the individual and God. But for me I believe yes I should forgive regardless, although I can never say never because I don't know what will happen in my life. But I'd pray to God to give me the strength to if it was hard for me to do so. He's done it for me before.
Did Jesus forgive those who crucified him and had they repented?
First of all:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," - 2 Timothy 3:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16&version=NKJV
Also, which Testament did Jesus quote from in His ministry?
You're forgetting what Jesus says...
"Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. *And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”" - Luke 17:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke17:3-4&version=NKJV
Jesus said to forgive ONLY if the person repents.
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God says to execute the murderer.
Leviticus 24:17-22
Numbers 35:31-33
Jesus supports the death penalty.
Matthew 5:17-19, 15:3-4
Revelation 13:10
1 Timothy 1:8-10
Romans 13:4
Jesus did not repeal the law. He said the law will not be fulfilled completely until Heaven and Earth pass away. (again, Matthew 5:17-19)
Jesus also says to keep even the least of the commandments. That means putting murderers to death, as given in Exodus 21:12.
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marhig
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I doesn't say the word "only" in there! And I've learnt that to forgive even if they haven't repented, stops our hearts becoming hard, if we don't forgive it fester's within us. And the holy spirit strengthens us to overcome and forgive.
Mark 11
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses
Matthew 6
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses
Ephesians 4
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
marhig
Well-known member
To die the death is death to self and the sword in revelation is the word of God.
Let me ask you something, could you do it? Could you be the one to use the knife or shoot the gun?
What would you do if saying you believe in capital punishment, you say yes to killing someone, or do it yourself and then find out they were innocent?
Would you worry incase the person you are condemning are ignorant? What if they have never heard the word of God before being killed, maybe when they heard the truth they would have been healed and there hearts changed. We don't know what suffering others have been through in their lives and many don't know God.
I don't know individual situations and circumstances, but there is also life imprisonment, and I know in my heart is wrong to murder and it's a work of the flesh. In either way, whether a person is a murderer or whether we murder for revenge. You say we are to obey Gods laws, and I agree as they should be in our hearts and in our minds. So the the law stands " thou shalt not kill" and I see the Bible differently to many here, I see it as the spiritual word of God written by those in the spirit.
And again Jesus said
Matthew 5
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And again
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?*Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
they keep disregard many of His word to justify their perverted doctrine or practice.
It is just so sad.
Jesus teaching is so noble and utmost pure. Why do they have the need to bring down to their worldly standards?
Yeppers.
Yeppers.
The whole bible is the word of GOD.
BINGO.
The word of GOD is not limited to the NT scriptures.
We do not disregard any of GOD's word, Meshak.
But you most certainly do.
It is very sad that you do not study the whole word of GOD.
Jesus' teaching would never go against His Father.
But you do.
You're right. It says "if he repents." Or did you not notice that conditional statement?
And since it's a conditional statement, it means the opposite is true as well:
"If he does not repent, then do not forgive him."
The next verse after this one reinforces the need for repentance, saying however many times a person comes to you, as long as he repents, then you forgive him.
You have learnt wrong. By forgiving others without them repenting, you make forgiveness superfluous. You show sinners that they don't need to repent in order for God to forgive them. God requires people to repent of their sins, but you, Marhig, tell people by forgiving them outright that they don't need to repent.
That's called psychobabble. It doesn't come from the Bible, it comes from worldly psychologists (not to say that all psychologists are bad people, just that that idea to forgive without requiring repentance is not Biblical)
Sounds like a law to me: Do this and you will be rewarded. Christians are not under the law, we are under grace. We are under "Forgive, even as our Father has forgiven you," which means, don't forgive someone unless they have repented.
Law, not grace. Same as above.
This is Grace, and is the verse I used above to show that God requires repentance before forgiving sins, so we should require repentance before we forgive someone who has wronged us.
marhig
Well-known member
marhig
Well-known member
So how come you disregard most of the new testament including Jesus and the other apostles except for Paul?
And I've noticed that the Bible is used as it suits by some, I thought you were under grace and not the law, so how come that you are now bringing up that it's alright to kill?