"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[meshak]

P.S ------ this discussion is going away and away from my question...just give answer to my question..

 

[genuineoriginal]

Your turn:

Did Christ die for ALL of your sins or just a few?

Your turn:

What happens to a person that has known the way of righteousness if they turn from the holy commandment afterwards?

 

[genuineoriginal]

What if you guys die before confessing/repenting of sin, will God still allow
you into Heaven?

That depends.

Everyone that has their name written in the Lamb's book of Life will be saved.
Christians that do not overcome will get their names blotted out from the Lamb's book of Life.

So, your question ends up asking what kind of sins will get your name blotted out from the Lamb's book of Life and how long after you sin will Jesus Christ give you to repent before He blots out your name from the Lamb's book of Life.

Since Jesus Christ is not as petulant as OSAS believers like to make Him out to be, it is my opinion that He will give a reasonable time to repent and take into account the severity of the sin and determine whether the believer is truly unrepentant before He will consider blotting out someone's name from the Lamb's book of Life.

After all, Jesus has also read the proverb that says a righteous man may fall seven times but will keep rising up again.

 

[glorydaz]

In Ro 3:25, Paul is referring to sins committed before the work of the cross, not to a believers sins committed before being saved.

"done aforetime-progegonoton"

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Acts 17:30-34 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. So Paul departed from among them. Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed:​

Indeed, but NOW God commands all men to repent. To turn from their unbelief and believe. An "about face".....a change of mind....turn toward God with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His death burial and resurrection.

Since the cross we see this....repentance TOWARD GOD and faith TOWARD our Lord Jesus Christ. From the cross, we look back and God winked...NOW, after the cross, we believe unto righteousness and all our sins are forgiven. All our sins were this side of the cross. The cross is where all eyes should be focused, not on man and our sins....hoping we can remember to confess each fault much less see those faults and confess them. :sigh:

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.​

 

[glorydaz]

In the examples of those letters, their faiths perverted in some way despite believing in Jesus Christ.

Have you read those letters in Revelation? How do you figure they are talking about members of the Body of Christ?

 

[Bright Raven]

Once a person has received salvation they can't loose it.

John 10:27-29New King James Version (NKJV)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[patrick jane]

Acts 17:30-34

Indeed, but NOW God commands all men to repent. To turn from their unbelief and believe. An "about face".....a change of mind....turn toward God with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His death burial and resurrection.

Since the cross we see this....repentance TOWARD GOD and faith TOWARD our Lord Jesus Christ. From the cross, we look back and God winked...NOW, after the cross, we believe unto righteousness and all our sins are forgiven. All our sins were this side of the cross. The cross is where all eyes should be focused, not on man and our sins....hoping we can remember to confess each fault much less see those faults and confess them. :sigh:

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.​

sometimes i forget to repent is a change of mind

GRACE AMBASSADORS MINISTRY UPDATE
by Justin Johnson
August 29th, 2015
Changing Your Mind

Repentance is a change of mind.

It often follows feelings of guilt or regret over being or doing wrong. Changing your mind when you are wrong is good.

The book of Romans is intended to change your mind. It begins by explaining how our minds became reprobate (Rom 1:28), and ends with a renewed mind (Rom 12:2), fully persuaded (Rom 14:5), that is like-minded in giving glory to God (Rom 15:5-6).

Repentance, being a change of mind, does not include any sort of work from you. It is a result of hearing the word of God, and letting it work in you. When a soul hears the word of God, it repents.

Romans 1-3 changes your mind about sin, and the need for salvation.

Romans 3-5 changes your mind about salvation, and God's righteousness in Christ.

Romans 5-8 changes your mind about who you are in Christ, and how to walk therein.

There is not a single thing you do anywhere in Romans 1-8 that does not concern changing your mind. By the end of eight chapters you are saved, sure, sealed, and ready to serve and there has not been one meritorious work on your part for any of it.

Paul preached repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Repentance is not a work; it is not turning from your sins, confession, self-sacrifice, or living a good life. It is a change of mind.

You find Paul preaching this change of mind in all his epistles, but clearly in Romans 1-8.

For His glory,

Justin "Repent!" Johnson
Promise in Christ or in a Covenant?

How very different trusting the finished payment of Christ is from trusting a future promise. Christ and a covenant are different. Christ is a person who made a payment. A covenant is a promise that has not yet been provided. If the promise has been delivered, rip up the mortgage!

I, me, patrick jane didn't write this -​

 

[heir]

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Please answer the question.

How many of your sins were in the future when "Christ died for our sins"?

 

[heir]

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Again, please answer the question.

How many of your sins did Christ not die for?

 

[glorydaz]

The main problem with OSAS is that it claims that full salvation happens at the time you first believe instead of at the coming of Jesus in His glory.

You receive a token of the coming salvation when you receive the Holy Spirit and you will be fully saved when Jesus returns if you have remained in Him and have not quenched the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is not stopping to believe in Jesus Christ as your savior and then continuing to wander off like the lost sheep you were before you believed. Salvation is stopping to believe in Jesus Christ and then remaining with Him for the rest of your life.

The actions needed to do that are different from person to person, but everyone that remains with Jesus must repent of their unrighteousness and do their best to act according to the standards of righteousness that God recognizes.

In God's standards, adultery is a sin worthy of the death penalty.
A Christian who commits adultery has wandered away from Jesus Christ and must return in order to be ready for the salvation that will come. This return will require the Christian that wandered away to repent of the new sins committed while away from Jesus Christ.

A "token"? And then we walk through a "Revolving Door" where we can turn and go back out again?

You know, don't you, that if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have committed adultery with her already. I sure hope you remember to confess all those glances you cast on those cheerleaders during the football game. Better yet. Are you perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect? NO? Well that is the standard that has been set.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

 

[elohiym]

He was speaking to the House of Israel, not to the Body of Christ.

He was speaking about the end and those who call him Lord but continue to sin, like you do.

Once a person has received salvation they can't loose it.

John 10:27-29New King James Version (NKJV)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

You have to reconcile your idea with the parable of sower, which proves that people can believe then fall away and be lost. Paul affirms that idea in Romans 11:22.

 

[musterion]

Is the newb going to say whether lost salvation can be regained?

 

[genuineoriginal]

A "token"?

That is what Paul called it.

And then we walk through a "Revolving Door" where we can turn and go back out again?

If you think like that, you really are not entering in through the door anyway.

You know, don't you, that if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have committed adultery with her already. I sure hope you remember to confess all those glances you cast on those cheerleaders during the football game.

Job had an answer for that.

Job 31:1 1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?​

Better yet. Are you perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect? NO? Well that is the standard that has been set.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

You seem to have been misled into thinking that the word translated as "perfect" means what the English word "perfect" means.

What it really means in the Bible is full grown and wanting nothing necessary for completeness.

τέλειος teleios
1 brought to its end, finished
2 wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3 perfect
4 that which is perfect
__A consummate human integrity and virtue
__B of men
____i full grown, adult, of full age, mature​

Paul uses the word in one of his famous anti-OSAS speechs:

Philippians 3:8-15 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.​

 

[glorydaz]

Revelations 2 has a few examples.

The first letter has this in verses 3-5

You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

How I know it is addressing the body of Christ.
- The letter itself is addressing the church.
- It makes it personal "You have persevered and endured hardships for my name"

Reasons for concern would be
- Yet I hold this against you
- God telling them to consider how far they have fallen
- Being told to do the things they did at first and a warning he will come and remove their lampstand from its place.

I would consider a lampstand to be a church, and the lamps to be the followers.

I'm sure you'd agree that God saves individuals....not churches ie assemblies.

Notice.....The Jews were ignorant of the righteousness of God and set about trying to establish their own righteousness. Right?

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

The members of the Body of Christ are IN HIM, and don't claim their own righteousness at all. We have been delivered from the law and are under grace. Thus salvation is a Gift we have not earned and we cannot keep by our own efforts. Therefore, I would have to say the churches in Revelation are not about us.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

 

[elohiym]

Is the newb going to say whether lost salvation can be regained?

You don't understand salvation, so put a sock in it, Newb.

Read the parable of the sower; if you don't understand it, I will not be surprised because Jesus said people like you would not understand his parables.

 

[musterion]

Revelations 2 has a few examples.

The first letter has this in verses 3-5

You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

How I know it is addressing the body of Christ.
- The letter itself is addressing the church.
- It makes it personal "You have persevered and endured hardships for my name"

Reasons for concern would be
- Yet I hold this against you
- God telling them to consider how far they have fallen
- Being told to do the things they did at first and a warning he will come and remove their lampstand from its place.

I would consider a lampstand to be a church, and the lamps to be the followers.

The church at Smyrna hasnt existed yet.

 

[elohiym]

A "token"? And then we walk through a "Revolving Door" where we can turn and go back out again

Read the parable of the sower.
Read Romans 11:22.

You know, don't you, that if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have committed adultery with her already. I sure hope you remember to confess all those glances you cast on those cheerleaders during the football game.

You are perverting Jesus' words. Adultery requires a married person and the desire to take her from her husband. There is no law against a man appreciating the God-given form of a woman. To look is not to lust. To appreciate is not lust. Not even to become sexually aroused is to lust. Only you legalists believe that nonsense. It is adultery to covet another man's wife, just as the commandment states, and that was our Lord's point. Stop preaching legalism and license to sin.

Better yet. Are you perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect? NO? Well that is the standard that has been set.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

So you don't meet the standard that's been set. Don't speak for others. All God's children are perfect. All those who continue in sin reject their Father. See 1Jn 3:6-10.

 

[Right Divider]

hmm........
NIV - od presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

NET--- publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed.

HCSB ---- God presented Him as a propitiation[a] through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

NLT ---- For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,

These are some standard versions .. i dont know how one can infer that it also refers to future sins from romans 3:25 . my first language is not english.. so my english comprehension skills might not be upto the mark. but you will not find it anywhere in the bible that your future sins are also forgiven when we accept jesus.. if that is the case then the following should not make sense.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
the epistle of john is written for believers only

ONCE AGAIN........NONE of those say ONLY sins that are past.

 

[elohiym]

ONCE AGAIN........NONE of those say ONLY sins that are past.

Wiley Coyote still wants to defend his license to murder.

No go. See 1 John 3:15.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul uses the word in one of his famous anti-OSAS speechs:

I'm sorry if I have to chuckle a bit over this being "one of his famous anti-OSAS speeches." :chuckle:

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So, a prize is something you win....correct? Or you earn by working really hard, correct?

While salvation and eternal life are GIFTS.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Eph. 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Why is salvation a GIFT man cannot earn or work hard for? One simple reason....so that man cannot boast and all glory will go to our LORD and Saviour.