Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.

heir

TOL Subscriber
There is a very easy way to see that the presumption that "once saved always saved" is nonsense. And that is to simply observe the behavior of those who claim to be "saved". As very quickly it will become apparent that they are no more "saved" than anyone else. Their thoughts are just as selfish and mean-spirited, and their actions reflect those thoughts. If they are "saved", then their salvation is meaningless. Because they are little changed by it.
:rolleyes:


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
There is a very easy way to see that the presumption that "once saved always saved" is nonsense. And that is to simply observe the behavior of those who claim to be "saved". As very quickly it will become apparent that they are no more "saved" than anyone else. Their thoughts are just as selfish and mean-spirited, and their actions reflect those thoughts. If they are "saved", then their salvation is meaningless. Because they are little changed by it. And in fact, they often think and behave even worse than others because they think they can do wrong, and suffer no consequences, because whatever they do, they are "saved".

What selfish nonsense!

Spiritual "salvation" takes a lifetime, and then some. It's a WORK in progress, for all of us.

Another Other spews his warped opinions.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Those Christ died for are born into the world as sinners and reconciled to God while they are enemies, so they are saved from the penalty of sin, death even when they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Those Christ died for are born into the world as sinners and reconciled to God while they are enemies, so they are saved from the penalty of sin, death even when they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 !
So what's your point!
 

iouae

Well-known member
Apostacy - Strongs G646 - translated as "falling away" = "Abandonment of one's religious faith".

2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Are these apostate Christians who fall away? Is this a prophecy about true believers in the end time?
If they fall away, is this not a proof against OSAS?

Or does this prophecy apply to some other group?
 

iouae

Well-known member
Daniel 7 speaks of this same time of apostasy in the end time under the Antichrist.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Matt 24 speaks of this end-time apostasy.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Dan 12 speaks of end-time apostasy...
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried;
 

Ben Masada

New member
People can be physically alive but without God's Spirit they are spiritually dead.

Paul explained there is a natural body and a spiritual body. A natural body without a human spirit is dead and a spiritual body without God's Spirit is dead.

And so it goes...

Yes Jamie, "And so it goes." Is that the reason why Paul chose to serve the Law in his mind while serving sin in the flesh? (Rom. 7:25) If sin is the transgression of the Law, how could Paul serve sin in his flesh while serving the Law in his mind? That's a riddle that even Jesus himself could not solve. He tried by saying that no one can serve two masters but, Paul was special, I think. (Mat. 6:24)
 

iouae

Well-known member
Yes Jamie, "And so it goes." Is that the reason why Paul chose to serve the Law in his mind while serving sin in the flesh? (Rom. 7:25) If sin is the transgression of the Law, how could Paul serve sin in his flesh while serving the Law in his mind? That's a riddle that even Jesus himself could not solve. He tried by saying that no one can serve two masters but, Paul was special, I think. (Mat. 6:24)

It boils down to the spirit (mind) being willing but the flesh weak.
No big riddle there.

And when the flesh is weak, we just pray "forgive us our trespasses" and viola we are squeaky clean. It's great. You should try it.

We don't have to wait for Atonement (Yom Kippur) :)
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes Jamie, "And so it goes." Is that the reason why Paul chose to serve the Law in his mind while serving sin in the flesh?" (Rom. 7:25)

In his mind Paul was serving the Law of Moses, but actually he was physically sinning by persecuting the church.

...concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. (Philippians 3:6 NKJV)
 

7djengo7

This space intentionally left blank
Who exactly do you believe God left out? 💫 1 Co 16:22

As a reminder Beloved57 is number 19 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

That's weird. In the document to which you have linked, here, it seems @beloved57 is accused of being an anti-Trinitarian of the Russellite variety. B57 promotes plenty of doctrinal error, but I've not seen him say anything at all that would make him seem to be a denier of the deity of Christ, much less, a Watchtower minion specifically. Quite the contrary, he seems to believe that Jesus is God.

You promote the heresy that one can be saved and then later cease being saved--a heresy b57 seems to reject; and, as a reminder, you're banned from TOL, whereas b57 isn't.

(OK, OK, I know I just replied to a post from years and years ago, written by someone who'll likely never be in a position to see my reply. What can I say? It seems a little quiet on TOL at the moment, so I figure, Why not?)
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Luke 8


5 A sower went out to sow his seed: ...

6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Those that wither away are those who, having believed fall away.

And for any seed that germinates and withers away, THAT'S IT.
But what is the word?
 
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