On the omniscience of God

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
The primary premise of Open Theism is that God is free (He has a will of His own), therefore the future is not 100% settled, because God can change His mind.
I entirely agree that this is definitely an important aspect of Open Theism's theology proper but I'd stop short of calling it a primary premise. The primary premise(s) of Open Theism are God's qualitative attributes. It is the fact that God is loving and just (and in all ways righteous) that stands as the primary premise(s) upon which the idea that the future is open depends.

Of course, that's not far away from the idea that God is free. My point here is only that the argument goes in the other direction than your statement would imply. Open theists generally begin with the conviction that God is genuinely personal, loving, righteous, relational, responsive, etc. From that, they argue that His relationship with creatures must involve real interaction: human choices genuinely matter, prayer can make a real difference and God can respond differently depending on what creatures do. Which is to say that God's ability to change His mind is down stream from the quality of His character (logically speaking).

Having said that, I suppose it does depend on just what argument you are building because if God were not free then He could not be moral. In that sense, the fact that He is a free personal agent is logically prior to moral agency, but still, that isn't usually the way the argument goes. We typically start with the premise that everyone agrees with and argue from there.
 
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VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
open theism puts free will over God ,gives free will preeminence
open theism says if God has exhaustive infallible foreknowledge we don't have free will
This shows that free will is given higher priority than God’s knowledge and sovereignty.

W2G, you are being ridiculous.

Do you think that when James White goes to a drive-thru he just says nothing when he pulls up to the window? 😂

Give me a break.
 

VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
What is then, @way 2 go ?? @Lon ??

When you're at the counter at McDonalds do you say, "No you can't take my order because I'm not a heretic like the open theists are."?

Explain to me how is it when James White orders a hamburger, that he isn't actually promoting heresy according to your insane worldview?
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
open theism puts free will over God ,gives free will preeminence

No, it doesn't.

True

No, it doesn't show anything of the kind.

Of course. Which He doesn't do with everyone, only those who submit to Him as Lord. The others will die, and since He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He is NOT working in them to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Yes, we are predestined such because we have submitted our will to His.

Which can ONLY be possible if free will is real. Otherwise we can't "align our will" (a free will phrase) with His. We certainly can't do so if it was determined before we began to exist.

There's no preeminence of a will submitted to God's.
God knows the future we do not , only the open theist thinks God knowing the future takes away free will


open theist give "free will preeminence" over God is shown here :

(Revelation 9:21) And they did not repent of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

open theist because of "free will preeminence" say this is prophecy it might be wrong , can't be trusted is how I take that

if God knows foreknows of their sins open theist want to make God somehow
(they don't say how ) responsible for the sin and non repentance
so with "free will preeminence" you can tear out Revelation and Daniel (except they're not conditional prophecies)
 

Right Divider

Body part
open theism puts free will over God ,gives free will preeminence
You are either:
  • Grossly ignorant or
  • A blatant liar
God knows the future we do not , only the open theist thinks God knowing the future takes away free will
If ALL of YOUR FUTURE actions are already KNOWN FULLY... then you have no FREE CHOICES.

It's just that simple.
open theist give "free will preeminence" over God is shown here :

(Revelation 9:21) And they did not repent of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

open theist because of "free will preeminence" say this is prophecy it might be wrong , can't be trusted is how I take that
God is free and we are created in His image.

You are trying to force the scripture to "agree" with you and you cannot understand what it actually says.
 

Derf

Well-known member
open theism puts free will over God ,gives free will preeminence


God knows the future we do not , only the open theist thinks God knowing the future takes away free will


open theist give "free will preeminence" over God is shown here :

(Revelation 9:21) And they did not repent of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

open theist because of "free will preeminence" say this is prophecy it might be wrong , can't be trusted is how I take that

if God knows foreknows of their sins open theist want to make God somehow
(they don't say how ) responsible for the sin and non repentance
so with "free will preeminence" you can tear out Revelation and Daniel (except they're not conditional prophecies)
Did you even read anything I wrote? You certainly didn't respond like you did.
 
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