Noah's Ark & post-flood speciation

[Alate_One]

There use to be a land bridge to Australia. The water level use to be much lower after the flood. Most likely do to collecting as snow and ice at the poles.

Nope. There was never a land bridge from the Middle East to Australia. There are no fossils or any evidence of Kangaroos ever living outside of Australia and New Guinea.

That's why we have the Wallace Line that divides Australian and New Guinea fauna from fauna native to the Asian mainland. It was one of the major types of evidence that gave people the idea of evolution.

Organisms evolve in particular places and are isolated from other parts of the world. That's why hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. There's no evidence of a recent global flood that mixed them all up.

 

[Stuu]

It's the usual story, no one likes to admit error. Human nature as usual.

Well I know. Obviously the instruction to use gopher wood is an indication from the LORD to Noah to bore big holes in the ark so the polar bears onboard could reach through and catch fish instead of munching on the pair of / seven pairs of seals.

Could the gophers have even done the boring, do you think?

Stuart

 

[6days]

There are no fossils or any evidence of Kangaroos ever living outside of Australia and New Guinea.

There also is no fossil evidence of lions in present day Israel.*

Organisms evolve in particular places and are isolated from other parts of the world.

Organisms adapt to various environments through a loss of pre-existing genetic info. Natural selection eliminates. Isolated populations (Such as on small islands) *generally become genetically fragile, and sometimes become extinct.

That's why hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. There's no evidence of a recent global flood that mixed them all up.

Here is evidence...

Gen. 7:17" For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[a] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark."

 

[Jose Fly]

Remember, as 6days agrees, all this creationism and flood stuff is just a "belief about the past", not science.

 

[Jose Fly]

But just for fun...

So bigger picture-wise, if "kinds" are roughly equivalent to taxonomic families, that raises an interesting issue given other creationist arguments.

Let's say there is a "cat kind", which means Noah took aboard the Ark two (or seven, depending on which of the two stories you read) representatives of the "cat kind", from which all of today's species of cats are descended. But remember, creationists also argue that mutation cannot increase the amount of "genetic information" in a genome, and that genomes have been degrading over time since The Fall.

So exactly how is a single breeding pair of cats able to give rise to the diversity of cats we see around us today....everything from tigers to house cats...without adding a single bit of "genetic information", and given the claim that the genomes have only been "degrading"?

 

[Alate_One]

There also is no fossil evidence of lions in present day Israel.*

Israel isn't necessarily a good place for lions to fossilize. But we have good reason to think lions were in the area. There are fossils and very accurate cave paintings of lions up in Europe. There are fossils of lions in North America and there is still a population of lions in western India.

Israel is listed in the historic range of lions.

That is a far cry from the kangaroo which has no evidence of having existed naturally outside any landmass that was once connected to Australia.

Organisms adapt to various environments through a loss of pre-existing genetic info. Natural selection eliminates. Isolated populations (Such as on small islands) *generally become genetically fragile, and sometimes become extinct.

Uh huh. You mean they generally radiate into a wide variety of new species. I can show you dozens of examples of this on almost every reasonably sized island.

Here is evidence...

The Bible isn't scientific evidence. It wasn't intended as a book of science.

 

[TracerBullet]

Many didn't.
I think your question is how they survived mixing of fresh and salt water? We would need to know salinity of oceans pre flood. The oceans would be much saltier now from water draining off the continents. Also, we would need to know genetic makeup of fish from thousands of years ago. It's quite possible many of today's organisms have lost genetic info as they are fragile and highly adapted to specific conditions.

so your response it to just make up more stuff. Well I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[TracerBullet]

When trolls ask questions like this, the answers to which are freely available and which have been answered before, they leave themselves open to certain, well-deserved replies.

:mock: Evolutionists!

which just means you don't want to give an actual answer. Again, not surprised.

 

[TracerBullet]

No. YEC's make predictions based on solid evidence.

what predictions are YEC's making?

 

[TracerBullet]

This is a lie when it comes to common decent. If it weren't then there would be scientists begging to get a look at the layers that are covered at the Paluxy river.

you mean like the hundreds of scientists who have gone there to study dinosaur footprints for decades?

And there are a lot more examples. For instance, soft tissue dinos should be a big area of study, but the only studying by common decentists on the topic is how to find excuses.

In the last five years there have been over 2000 published studies on the subject

Same thing with carbon 14 found in... everything it shouldn't be.

Like?

 

[TracerBullet]

"Kinds," not every kind; of the land animals. By the way, gopher wood is a type of plywood. It is wood strips or boards that were laminated together with pitch.

That's nice...except that pitch is a petroleum product and you creationists claim that coal and oil and other petroleum products were created by the flood itself.

 

[Stuu]

Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians."

And who was Luke, exactly?

Do you have an answer to my question?

6days?

 

[Stuu]

The oceans would be much saltier now from water draining off the continents.

What would you say the salinity is of the water 'draining off the continents' right at the moment?

6days?

 

[CherubRam]

Well I know. Obviously the instruction to use gopher wood is an indication from the LORD to Noah to bore big holes in the ark so the polar bears onboard could reach through and catch fish instead of munching on the pair of / seven pairs of seals.

Could the gophers have even done the boring, do you think?

Stuart

I see now that I should have used the word "hewn." hewn (hyo͞on) v. A past participle of hew. hewn (hyun or, often, yun) adj. 1. felled and roughly shaped by hewing: hewn logs. 2. given a rough surface: hewn stone.

 

[CherubRam]

Nope. There was never a land bridge from the Middle East to Australia. There are no fossils or any evidence of Kangaroos ever living outside of Australia and New Guinea.

That's why we have the Wallace Line that divides Australian and New Guinea fauna from fauna native to the Asian mainland. It was one of the major types of evidence that gave people the idea of evolution.

Organisms evolve in particular places and are isolated from other parts of the world. That's why hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. There's no evidence of a recent global flood that mixed them all up.

LAND BRIDGE. ASIA TO AUSTRALIA: http://www.freewebs.com/restorationhqcs/landbridge.htm

 

[CherubRam]

That's nice...except that pitch is a petroleum product and you creationists claim that coal and oil and other petroleum products were created by the flood itself.

Tree sap then!
3. A resin derived from the sap of various coniferous trees, as the pines.

 

[6days]

6days?

"Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians."
And you ask who wrote Luke...
Likely John Mark in about 68AD...... Ultimately though,
"All scripture is inspired by God...."

 

[TracerBullet]

Tree sap then!
3. A resin derived from the sap of various coniferous trees, as the pines.

You might as well say that droppings from the tame dinosaurs Noah used to haul the wood to his ark construction sight had unique and long forgotten adhesive properties.

 

[6days]

6days?

You ask the salinity of water draining off the continents now..... Not sure.......
What I said was that the oceans would be saltier now than they were before a global flood. We don't know what the salinity was pre-flood nor the tolerance of pre-flood organisms.

 

[Yorzhik]

Of course, scientists have looked at the Paluxy river tracks. See here for example: https://youtu.be/qvHII6Vv06s?t=1m10s

Then you are quite unaware of what Roland T. Bird did and what he was interested in.

What he didn't do, and what no scientist has been interested in doing, is getting to the covered tracks that would take a great deal of time and money to see what is under there.

Here again, scientists are investigating tissue residues in dino fossils. Ever heard of Mary Schweitzer? Also, here is a link to one of many posts I've made on that very subject: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4347692&highlight=tissue#post4347692

Mary Schweitzer is a great example of scientists fighting tooth and nail to avoid the subject. They've tried everything to discredit her work. And almost no one is expanding on the work like they would if they were interested in truth.

Here's a coupla vids on the topic of carbon 14 you might find interesting:

Radiometric Dating

Carbon Dating of Dinosaurs?

​

I've seen them. They simply retell the same common decent stories that stand as adequate proof for anyone that only wants their ears tickled and are not interested in the deeper questions raised.

The bottom line is these are great examples of people making excuses instead of looking into anomalies, exactly as I've been saying these last few posts.