Mid Acts Disponsationalism

Mid Acts Disponsationalism


  • Total voters
    45

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Know what I'm curious about? There are 5 people who poll as unsure about MAD. That's great, so a thread that the MAD experts (myself excluded) could answer whatever questions they may want to ask would be nice, if it could be worked out. By that I mean, it would HAVE to exclude the usual troll spam from the usual suspects whose minds are made up...and that'd be the trick. Would have to involve serious moderation. Is it possible?
While this forum is moderated a tad bit more than others, it is still going to have division and conflicts.

Gotta realize that the mods probably are not reading every single post in these threads.
So if it gets too far off track in places, it should be reported by those that are reading the posts.
 

musterion

Well-known member
While this forum is moderated a tad bit more than others, it is still going to have division and conflicts.

Gotta realize that the mods probably are not reading every single post in these threads.
So if it gets too far off track in places, it should be reported by those that are reading the posts.

Right...so what I was thinking is, maybe a temporary mod could be deputized. Someone who would also be participating in the thread but could also act as the doorman/doorlady and bouncer of non-MADs who will show up just to disrupt the Q and A. Someone level-headed and objective about these things. Someone like you, f'rinstance. :D
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Right...so what I was thinking is, maybe a temporary mod could be deputized. Someone who would also be participating in the thread but could also act as the doorman/doorlady and bouncer of non-MADs who will show up just to disrupt the Q and A. Someone level-headed and objective about these things. Someone like you, f'rinstance. :D
We already have Danoh pointing out the disruptions in most of the threads here.
:D
He's kinda like John W. in that respect --- walking the walls for the little ones.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Would you seek to have, adultery, child molestation, homosexuality,
drunkenness, unruly children, etc, a "Death Penalty" issue, if you
could?

Drunkenness is not a death penalty crime but yes, I would, if I could institute the death penalty for murder, adultery, rape, incest, child molestation, homosexuality, bestiality etc.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
How is "Adultery" connected to, murder, drug abuse, teen pregnancy, gang activity, etc? That's not even logical? One doesn't lead to another.

It's entirely logical and they are definitely connected.

Adultery is one of, if not the most common motive for murder.

Adultery is also a major reason why people get divorced.

Divorce breeds all sorts of ill effects on society. Not the least of which is teen pregnancy, teen suicide, drug use, abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, etc.

Growing up without a father in the household is the number one indicator as to whether a boy will end up in prison (for whatever reason).

There are virtually no gang members whose father and mother are in the home.

This, of course, is not to say that if you criminalize adultery that there won't be any more gangs or drug use or murder. The point is simply that it has an enormous effect on the whole of society. It effects way more than the people directly involved in the broken relationship. It effects everyone. The ripple effects are seemingly endless!

One single just law transforms an entire society! God is indeed just, righteous and merciful in all His law!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I would NEVER say that it was!
Then what was the point of bringing up rebellious children?

The Bible is inspired of God. What ever
laws were enforced when it came to the Israelite's, was from God.
However, we're now living in the "Dispensation of Grace" and God
is dealing with mankind in a different way. The Gentiles were NEVER
under the law to begin with.
Murder was wrong before the law said, "You shall not murder."


Abraham was a Gentile and was "saved" by faith in God. When the law was later instituted, after Moses gave the law to the Israelite's, they had to live by the rules, laws, judgments of God Himself. They had to sacrifice animals and live in accordance to the laws given to Moses. Those laws were never meant for the Gentiles. The House of Israel were the "Chosen people" of God.
Now it is you who are mixing apples and oranges. I really don't think you're even paying attention, but nevertheless...

The religious laws in the Old Testament have no meaning or application outside of the context of the nation of Israel and God's special relationship with that people. That much we agree on. But not all the laws are religious in nature. And I've explained already that I do not support such laws because they're in the Old Testament but because they are just! God is just and He has always been just and He has not changed!

Today, we're to follow the laws that our society dictates.

Romans 13:1-5 states: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Yes, but we as Christians aught to advocate JUSTICE!!!! This nation is not under grace! Christians are but that has to do with their relationship with God, not with criminal justice. It is the rituals and religious laws that were a shadow of things to come and which Christ is the substance. But you can't go from that and say a nation is just fine and dandy if it wants to legalize sex with children or to institute a rape weekend once a year. That would be sick and unjust! How do we know it would be unjust? BECAUSE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!!!!

Justice is NOT a matter of opinion. Justice is what it is. It isn't something we're supposed to vote on or to take a pole about. We are not admonished in scripture to follow our hearts but rather to figure out what IS right and what IS wrong and do accordingly! A nations laws are either just or they are not. And you are not required by God or your conscience to obey immoral laws! What if a nation legalized the systematic murder of Jews? Would you obey? I hope not!

But if not, I wonder why exactly. You still haven't even posited a single idea about the standard by which you decide who should be counted as a criminal and what should be done with them. Do you even have such a standard? Do you even understand what makes a law just? Do you think its arbitrary? Did God just make it up or what?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Danoh

New member
Know what I'm curious about? There are 5 people who poll as unsure about MAD. That's great, so a thread that the MAD experts (myself excluded) could answer whatever questions they may want to ask would be nice, if it could be worked out. By that I mean, it would HAVE to exclude the usual troll spam from the usual suspects whose minds are made up...and that'd be the trick. Would have to involve serious moderation. Is it possible?

I'd move "expert" be left out of the equation.

Several times throughout my own A9D path, I've shared a thing with others that ended helping them update and or refine their own A9D understanding of a thing.

This; even though far and away more often than not, they have been able to help me update my own understanding on one thing or another way more than I have ever been able to keep up with.

Were they to consider themselves an expert, or were I, that would not be possible.

I suspect such a stumbling block is proven as in the way, on here every day.

We have to be able to learn from anyone. O'Hair was ever able to, for example.

It is how he ended up Mid-Acts...

One example, that comes to mind: once, he was asked to deliver a teaching on his understanding that signs and wonders were over.

Afterwards, a Pentecostal preacher approached the great man, and informed him he'd been fully persuaded in his own mind by O'Hair's three major points.

Some years later, O'Hair and that former Pentecostal preacher meet.

He relates to O'Hair that he had come to see through those very three points O'Hair had taught on some years earlier, that they also pointed to the cessation of the water ritual.

At first, O'Hair took issue with that.

Until the man challenged O'Hair asking him whether O'Hair was truly a Berean or not....

That night, O'Hair stays up all night; his nose in Scripture.

By dawn, he too has come to the conviction that water baptism is out.

In this, there is something else of great importance - the issue of who actually founded what, together with the moral that is actually its lesson.

That what is really the truth behind such a founding is the very process the Apostle Paul wrote would allow for such supposed "founding..."

The "founding" of a thing is the result of those various aspects it is comprised of, having come together at some point.

The Apostle Paul wrote of a process of perfecting the saints unto that work by which the edifying of one another; the building up of another in the sound understanding of more and more, is brought about.

As well as, unto what intended end.

The brother might well have been agreeing with poet, John Donne's "No man is an island..."

That grace by which O'Hair had been able to build that brother up in the form of sound words if but a just a little.

And this same grace by which that brother had then been able not only to grow in, but even further than O'Hair!

The very grace by which he had then become able to return that same grace to O'Hair, in turn.

The word of Christ, not bound from its intended effectual working in the measure of every part, when the effort made is that of each individual looking within through the Word, as to what each is doing to allow its free coarse...

Ephesians 4's:

13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of
the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


In this, I'd rather the attitude on here be more one of simply sharing with one another out of each's excitement and curiosity about how the understanding of the Scripture works this side of that which is perfect: the full revelation of the Mystery in written form.

Last thing we need is "another expert."

But I suspect that is what you meant, Musti, my brother; your disdain with supposed "experts" is not only often obvious, but one I share.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
You know I love ya, GM.

But when you say:

And also say you are against the death penalty would be contradicting yourself if you lived in TEXAS or any state that has the death penalty.

Society has gone so far down the path of moving away from God that it now makes adultery, murder (abortion), and homosexuality legally acceptable. So much so that society is even trying to make you into a hate-crime criminal if you even speak out against such things.
As Knight said, America is going to hell in a hand-basket, and it is our municipal powers that are paving the path.

I'm, FOR THE DEATH PENALTY!
 

Danoh

New member
I'm, FOR THE DEATH PENALTY!

Way back when the death penalty was the law of the land, all crimes still went on.

I recall years ago a poster throughout the city, something along the line of "there's one thing a shop lifter never forgets - getting caught."

I remember thinking 'yeah, so they get better at it.'

The death penalty in Scripture proved to be one more means of God proving what He had been proving all along through the Law - that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

People really need to study out the actual sense of Romans 1:17's "therein is the righteousness of God..."

Especially those who hold to the A9D aka Mid-Acts, perspective.

Those who do not, well, those who do not, do not...

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind in its time...
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
As foretold.

And not to pick on GM, for I feel his heart is in the right place. But if he really believes that everyone must abide by whatever civil authorities dictate as law, then he would be one that would need to take the mark of the beast or else be outcast or executed.
So, something ain't quite adding up about following the laws that our society dictates.

Romans 13:1-6

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God:

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

According to the Apostle Paul, we are to obey the laws of the land.
If the laws of the land become corrupt, like they were in Germany in
the 1930s-40s the citizens had the right to leave that country and go
elsewhere. Early on, before Hitler took complete control, The "Writing on the wall" was pretty clear, that, something wicked was coming. Many Jews packed up and left the country. Some decided to stay.

According to Paul, "the powers that be are ordained of God." There
was a "reason" that God allowed Hitler to come to power for ten years.

The House of Israel were enslaved in Egypt (for labor sake, not
for genocide like in Germany) for 400 years. God was the one who
allowed Pharaoh to come to power. The reason was, so God could
show forth His power.

So, God ordains those who rule over us. Therefore, we are subject
to obey the laws of the land. The powers that be are ordained of God.
We may not agree with our leadership however, if we remain
in this or any other country, we have to obey the rule of law.
Otherwise, we will suffer the consequences.

An example would be, if the speed limit is 60 mph and we exceed
that speed, we might just receive a costly ticket? If we're sent a
jury duty notice and ignore it, we'll have a bench warrant out for
us, etc.

In conclusion, we've been a country for about 300 Years and in all
that time we've never instituted the death penalty for adultery,
homosexuality, etc. Evidently, the powers that be have no desire
to do so. Therefore, we have to abide by the laws that are in place,
until and if they are ever changed. Which I hope they aren't.

I believe in the death penalty for murder alone and always will.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I'd move "expert" be left out of the equation.

Several times throughout my own A9D path, I've shared a thing with others that ended helping them update and or refine their own A9D understanding of a thing.

This; even though far and away more often than not, they have been able to help me update my own understanding on one thing or another way more than I have ever been able to keep up with.

Were they to consider themselves an expert, or were I, that would not be possible.

I suspect such a stumbling block is proven as in the way, on here every day.

We have to be able to learn from anyone. O'Hair was ever able to, for example.

It is how he ended up Mid-Acts...

One example, that comes to mind: once, he was asked to deliver a teaching on his understanding that signs and wonders were over.

Afterwards, a Pentecostal preacher approached the great man, and informed him he'd been fully persuaded in his own mind by O'Hair's three major points.

Some years later, O'Hair and that former Pentecostal preacher meet.

He relates to O'Hair that he had come to see through those very three points O'Hair had taught on some years earlier, that they also pointed to the cessation of the water ritual.

At first, O'Hair took issue with that.

Until the man challenged O'Hair asking him whether O'Hair was truly a Berean or not....

That night, O'Hair stays up all night; his nose in Scripture.

By dawn, he too has come to the conviction that water baptism is out.

In this, there is something else of great importance - the issue of who actually founded what, together with the moral that is actually its lesson.

That what is really the truth behind such a founding is the very process the Apostle Paul wrote would allow for such supposed "founding..."

The "founding" of a thing is the result of those various aspects it is comprised of, having come together at some point.

The Apostle Paul wrote of a process of perfecting the saints unto that work by which the edifying of one another; the building up of another in the sound understanding of more and more, is brought about.

As well as, unto what intended end.

The brother might well have been agreeing with poet, John Donne's "No man is an island..."

That grace by which O'Hair had been able to build that brother up in the form of sound words if but a just a little.

And this same grace by which that brother had then been able not only to grow in, but even further than O'Hair!

The very grace by which he had then become able to return that same grace to O'Hair, in turn.

The word of Christ, not bound from its intended effectual working in the measure of every part, when the effort made is that of each individual looking within through the Word, as to what each is doing to allow its free coarse...

Ephesians 4's:

13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of
the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


In this, I'd rather the attitude on here be more one of simply sharing with one another out of each's excitement and curiosity about how the understanding of the Scripture works this side of that which is perfect: the full revelation of the Mystery in written form.

Last thing we need is "another expert."

But I suspect that is what you meant, Musti, my brother; your disdain with supposed "experts" is not only often obvious, but one I share.

Now THAT was wordy. But you raise good points.

I have no disdain for experts when they really are experts in their particular field of study. That is (or should be) the position of everyone with any level of discernment.

My eschewing myself in favor of our local experts (as I honestly consider them to be) was that and nothing more: I am not fit to be one answering deeper questions on Mid-Acts for those who may be seeking truth. Besides, a few aspects of my own views are in flux at the moment so I'm partially "off line" and wouldn't be up to the task for that reason alone.

The point is, there are several others here FAR better suited to that privilege and should such a moderated thread come about. They know who they and will step up to the plate when honest questions are asked. They always do.
 

Danoh

New member
Likewise, Musti, nothing I love more than not only a true expert, but a rare artist - Richard Jordan, Robert De Niro, Rhonda Rousey, you name the field; such people are on a level all their own...
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So, God ordains those who rule over us. Therefore, we are subject
to obey the laws of the land. The powers that be are ordained of God.
We may not agree with our leadership however, if we remain
in this or any other country, we have to obey the rule of law.
Otherwise, we will suffer the consequences.
The one ruling over society will be antichrist.
That's why I'm saying that in order to obey "those that rule over society" in municipal matters would need to obey this antichrist and receive the mark.

So on the one hand, folks have instructions to obey the ruling municipal power.
And on the other hand, folks should disobey the ruling municipal power that says to take the mark.
When it comes to the mark of the beast, you can't have it both ways.

See what I mean?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The one ruling over society will be antichrist.
That's why I'm saying that in order to obey "those that rule over society" in municipal matters would need to obey this antichrist and receive the mark.

So on the one hand, folks have instructions to obey the ruling municipal power.
And on the other hand, folks should disobey the ruling municipal power that says to take the mark.
When it comes to the mark of the beast, you can't have it both ways.

See what I mean?

If the True Believers will have been, "Taken out" before the
the rule of the Anti-Christ, then, we won't have to deal with
that? Until that time, it's best to obey the laws of the land or
be willing to pay the consequences.
 
Last edited:

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Says who?

Paul, the Apostle of the Dispensation of Grace, disagrees with you.

Why is Paul wrong?


Why not?


Yeah, so was Paul.


Yes, He did so according to the law!

The testimony of two or three witnesses is required for conviction. No such witnesses came forward.

Jesus manipulated the situation to work out that way because, as the text tells us, it was a trap. Those who brought the prostitute before Jesus were attempting to get Jesus in trouble with the Roman authorities. He DID NOT abolish one jot or tittle of the law with that maneuver.


I've already answered this question. You should read the post before responding to it.


You actually do believe that God is unjust, don't you?!

God never said to execute liars, you fool!

Perjury could be a capital offense but only if you commit perjury in a capital case. If you lie in court in an attempt to get a murderer off and are caught in the lie then you are an accomplice to murder and aught to be executed. But if the case is about a non-capital offense then the punishment for perjury is whatever is at stake in the case. So if the defendant will owe $500 if found guilty, then you will owe $500 if caught perjuring yourself. It is done unto you as you sought to have done to your neighbor. It is the golden rule applied to the criminal.


Well how in the world are they ever going to hear the grace message of we kill them?????

That is YOUR argument in the case of every other thing God calls a capital crime. Why doesn't it apply to murderers?

You have not answered my question!

By what standard do you make these judgements?

Resting in Him,
Clete

After you called me a "FOOL" I stopped reading your post.
That was unnecessary name calling. It shows immaturity.
I'd rather have discussions with adult types.
 
Last edited:

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
God never said to execute liars, you fool!

Matthew 5:22 states: "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

What does this verse mean? Also, do you have any fear of God?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Clete has a following around here, I realize that. However, he and I
have never gotten along. Just being honest. I have no use for him
and visa-versa.
 
Top