Mid Acts Disponsationalism

Mid Acts Disponsationalism


  • Total voters
    45

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I believe what the Bible says. It says Israel was put away, and gentiles raised up through Paul's unique ministry.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
"Put away"? Where does it say that?

So then you haven't read Romans 9-11?

Romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 10

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 11

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:


“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”​

9 And David says:


“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”​


11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You can substitute andyc and godulz where it says For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God..
 

Doormat

New member
So then you haven't read Romans 9-11?

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Ephesians 2:12, 19 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: ... Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

What do you think Paul meant by those statements, brother?

Do you believe that Israel is a type or alternative name for the Body of Christ (Hosea 11:1 cf. Matthew 2:14-15)?

Is Christ the king of Israel?

Is the king of Israel a citizen of Israel?

Is Christ one with His nation?

Are you in Christ, one with him?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

That doesn't change anything. Paul is explaining how gentiles apart from the law are saved. He will have mercy on whom he has mercy. And his enemies in Israel were not his. That is all he is saying. Israel was put away, cast away, whatever you want to call it.

Ephesians 2:12, 19 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: ... Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

You do realize you are quoting "MAD doctrine" to disprove "MAD doctrine".

What do you think Paul meant by those statements, brother?

What I already said. They did not trust God. They are not his, even though he has a covenant with them.

Do you believe that Israel is a type or alternative name for the Body of Christ (Hosea 11:1 cf. Matthew 2:14-15)?

Absolutely not. There is no such thing as "spiritual Israel".
 

Doormat

New member
Brother Nick, before I respond to your last post, I wonder if you would do me the courtesy of answering these four simple yes or no questions:

Is Christ the king of Israel?

Is the king of Israel a citizen of Israel?

Is Christ one with His nation?

Are you in Christ, one with him?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
1. Is Christ the king of Israel?

2. Is the king of Israel a citizen of Israel?

3. Is Christ one with His nation?

4. Are you in Christ, one with him?

Irrelevant.

1. Yes
2. Yes, from birth. But he had to be crucified and raised up
3. Metaphorically, yes. Israel isn't really a bride, but it is a metaphor for understanding.
4. I am. I am a part of him, not his bride.
 

Boomer

Diving deep
Staff member
Administrator
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Yes, I pretty much believed this way for quite a few years. I just didn't know it had a name.
 

WoundedEgo

New member
So then you haven't read Romans 9-11?

Romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 10

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 11

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:


“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”​

9 And David says:


“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”​

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

Yes, I have read it, but where does it say that Israel was "put away"?
 

WoundedEgo

New member
So then you haven't read Romans 9-11?

Romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 10

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 11

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:


“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”​

9 And David says:


“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”​


11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

The passages you cite say:

* "Israel pursuing righteousness by the law, has not attained righteousness"
* They have not submitted to God's [means of] righteousness
* Israel [as a whole] has not obtained the justification that they seek; the elect did obtain it while the rest/majority did not
* Their fall benefited the nations but their fulness will do so more so

It does not say that they were "put away".

Have you considered the message put forth by Hosea?
 

DAN P

New member
The passages you cite say:

* "Israel pursuing righteousness by the law, has not attained righteousness"
* They have not submitted to God's [means of] righteousness
* Israel [as a whole] has not obtained the justification that they seek; the elect did obtain it while the rest/majority did not
* Their fall benefited the nations but their fulness will do so more so

It does not say that they were "put away".

Have you considered the message put forth by Hosea?



Hi , and it is prophetic and Paul said 3 times , Acts 13:46 , Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:27 -28 , Israel's heart is Fat , Ear will not hear , and there EYES are closed , and Might be Reformed , and I Myself have to heal Israel .

Then in Rom 11:11-19 , speaks of Israel being broken off

And verse 20 says why theyy were broken off , because of UNBLIEF .

And another verse that speaks to Israel cut down is in Luke 13:6-9 and Matt 3:10 where the AXE is laid for Israel to be hewn down !!

dan p
 

WoundedEgo

New member
So Dan...

So Dan...

Hi , and it is prophetic and Paul said 3 times , Acts 13:46 , Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:27 -28 , Israel's heart is Fat , Ear will not hear , and there EYES are closed , and Might be Reformed , and I Myself have to heal Israel .

Then in Rom 11:11-19 , speaks of Israel being broken off

And verse 20 says why theyy were broken off , because of UNBLIEF .

And another verse that speaks to Israel cut down is in Luke 13:6-9 and Matt 3:10 where the AXE is laid for Israel to be hewn down !!

dan p

And what if they are grafted back in?
 
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