Matthew 12:40
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
This I will agree with.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
So then the passover is the second day of unleavened bread?
And the high day is not passover?
So I'm trying to see what's going on.
Your reckoning then, is that the first day of unleavened bread would have been Tuesday, am I correct?
Now on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?” (Matthew 26:17)
The Greek reads de prōtos azymos.
The words "day of the Feast" are not in the Greek text and the translation is misleading. What is actually being said is at the beginning of Unleavened Bread the disciples asked Jesus where he would eat the Passover.
The Passover is eaten the night that begins Unleavened Bread. The disciples did not understand that Jesus would be betrayed into the hands of the Jewish leaders and would in fact become the Lamb of God.
Your insistence on emphasizing the 15th as a Sabbath equating with a seventh day Sabbath is not correct.
The 15th is a holy convocation, as I said before and what the text says. The 15th is the day on which the Chagigah is offered. This is a 'freewill' offering. If a man was going to make the freewill offering, he had to be ritually pure according to the law and work on that day could be done for those offerings. This type of work could not be done on a seventh day Sabbath.
I'm saying that Jesus died on the 15th, period. This is what the text says. He and His disciples ate the passover at Israel's appointed time.
Can you not see that in the text?
If you can see it and I cannot fathom why one could not, then this should be an absolute immovable presupposition to the rest of the study. If you cannot accept this, which scripture clearly presents, then we have nothing else to talk about.
If this fact is not accepted, then all other arguments concerning the timeline that contradict this fact are pointless.
Again, did Jesus and His disciples eat the Passover together at GOD's appointed time, which is the beginning of the 15th?
This scripture is not needed at this point until the baseline is established, which is Christ and His disciples eating the Passover on the 15th after sundown of the 14th.
Forget about our names for days, at this point.
I'm saying that the chief priests and Pharisees went to Pilate early on the morning of the 15th.
(And no, it wasn't Saturday morning.)
Yes, indeed!
Certainly not.
Yep.
Yep.
I don't know what that means.
The only Sabbath that is mentioned in all four gospel narratives is one seventh day Sabbath.
If one is claiming that the mention of a Sabbath in the narrative is speaking of the 15th, then this is completely mistaken.
This is at least one point where you're off, when you insist that the 15th is equal to a seventh day weekly Sabbath, with its laws.
If one posits Matt 12:40 as an absolute 72 hour period and determines all argument on that presupposition, then that's the end of the discussion, for it doesn't matter what the chronological text says, it must be forced to conform to 72 hours.
Friday crucifixion is determined directly from the chronological narratives of Matthew, Mark and Luke first, and then dealing with John's unusual use of the word 'passover' and 'preparation'. When John's narrative is finally seen to conform with the other three, then it becomes clear that the 14th was Thursday, the 15th Friday, 16th, Saturday and the 17th Sunday.
Friday crucifixion is not an invention.
Why do even the Coptics Christians of Egypt still observe it this way along with Eastern Orthodox, RCC and Protestants?
A Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion are recent inventions, not Friday.
The seventh day Sabbath is also a holy convocation, meaning sacred assembly.
Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. (Leviticus 23:3)
It would help if you would learn the law before trying refute scripture.
If you are just wanting to argue about the law, count me out.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
That's what I thought too.
In order to disprove this, Jamie has only offered text that leaves out words, and then says the other text was never there.
:idunno:
If the first century Jews could have proved the gospel writers to have grossly erred and that Yeshua had lied I reference to the statement three days and three nights, it would've been done long ago. The reason that there is no argument coming from Judaism on this is because they (unbelieving Jews) know that according to Jewish reckoning of time (night and day) that there was no argument. It is only Gentiles who stumble with it, like Jamie does. Because of her dislike for Jews, she completely ignores the arguments that were smoked in the first century.
Ridiculous, not thinking about it very deeply as it could be.
Ridiculous, not thinking about it very deeply as it could be.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Originally Posted by jamie
What, did they have to wait until Paul told them?
What, did they have to wait until Paul told them?
Do you have an interlinear showing the Greek texts?
If you dunno it's because you don't want to know.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
No I dont have one of those.
But I did buy an NKJV once.
On it they said they only changed the thees, thous, and thines & eths
to make it easier to read.
They lied.
Mark 16:1 KJV
And when the sabbath was past , Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Oops they left out had which completely changes the meaning.
Mark 16:1 NKJV
Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.
Had is not in the Greek text, it was added by the KJV translators.
Not me.
My posts mostly concern the chronological timeline in the historic narrative, which should be obvious by now.
:idunno:
Ok, so why did you say, "Forget about our names for days, at this point. I'm saying that the chief priests and Pharisees went to Pilate early on the morning of the 15th. (And no, it wasn't Saturday morning.)?
That is a direct contradiction to what Matthew said.
On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate, saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’ (Matthew 27:62-63)
You claim Jesus died on Friday the 15th and then deny the chief priests and Pharisees went to Pilate the next morning after he died. Why?
You claim the annual Sabbath is not a Sabbath. Why?
You deny Jesus is the Passover. Why?
I don't mind discussing this issue with you but you keep denying scripture. Why?
I'm sorry, I read your question wrong. Sometimes I need to slow down and read more carefully. I was thinking your question had to do with Christ being delivered to Pilate for judgement on the morning following His betrayal.
Yes, I believe that the chief priests and Pharisees went to Pilate on the day after the preparation/paraskeue for the seventh day Sabbath, which day would actually be the seventh day Sabbath.
Answered.
The 15th is a holy convocation and no 'customary' work was to be done, but those things pertaining to the feast of unleavened bread and the Chagigah were not customary work.
The rules for the seventh day Sabbath were much stricter. That's all that I mean by it.
I've never denied that Jesus is our Passover.
No I don't.
Did Jesus and His disciples keep the Passover at GOD's appointed time for Israel?
No, Jesus was the Passover. He died on a day of preparation, not on an annual Sabbath. He was laid in the tomb as the Sabbath began.
The women observed him being placed in the tomb and the day after the Sabbath they bought spices and fragrant oils to anoint the body and then they rested on the weekly Sabbath.
On Sunday morning the tomb was to be unsealed and the women went to the tomb to anoint the body.
Then....you are the one who is denying scripture.
Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Do you just close your eyes to this......or what?
Please explain it.
Then came the Day of Unleavened Bread when the Passover must be killed. (Luke 22:7)
The day of the Unleavened Bread festival when the Passover is killed is the Preparation Day.
The Passover is killed the afternoon of the 14th, dressed out, taken home, roasted and eaten that night after sundown.
Jesus and his disciples did not keep the Passover they kept this Passover. Scripture does not say what they ate but after supper Jesus instituted this Passover, the one for the church.
Paul said, "For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." (1 Corinthians 5:7-8)
The church is prohibited from keeping Israel's Passover so Jesus instituted a new covenant Passover for the church. Jesus had to keep his Passover a night early because he was to be the Passover to be sacrificed the next day when the Mosaic Passovers were sacrificed.
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