ECT madists and their gnostic gospel

[God's Truth]

A person is born again when they GET WASHED of their sins and are made clean by Jesus---they now have a new life, as if they are born again.

You have to repent of your sins and have FAITH that Jesus cleans you of your sins that you repent of doing.

Jesus lives in you and you live in Jesus and we WALK BY THE SPIRIT WHEN WE DO WHAT JESUS says to do.

His words are Spirit and full of life.

 

[andyc]

I guess it never dawned on you that we don't need to boast about "walking in the Spirit", because we understand boasting is excluded by the law of faith. We're quite confident being members of the body of Christ...seated with Him in heavenly places. Is it the lack of charismatic theatrics you think we're missing?

I spent most of my life as a believer never even having heard the term MAD. I understood the dispensation of Grace but didn't know the particulars of why things changed from the Gospels to Paul's letters. And, in all those years prior to hearing of mad, we didn't talk about "walking in the Spirit"....it was walking by faith.

Your premise is flawed. Period.

Are you seeing this?

Walking in the Spirit is the law of faith, and these people are acting like rabbits dazzled by the headlights, because they do not understand any of it. You know why? Because mad only focuses on the hopelessness of the flesh. Their confused gospel makes excuses for it, not directs people to the answer.

 

[Danoh]

When Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, it was an attempt to be like God while being a flesh person. To know good and evil, is to choose one or the other. The law is a document which defines right and wrong. This law is spiritual, and not intended to be directed towards carnal man. And so when Paul is talking about us being released from the law, he's talking about God relating to us in Spirit. If God relates to us according to the Spirit, the demands of the law upon the natural man lose relevance.

This is why Romans 7 leads on to Romans 8, and how victory over bondage to the flesh which is empowered by the law, is accomplished by identifying who we are in Spirit, and walking in it by faith.

Ye must be born again. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. As we have born the image of the earthly man, because we've been carnal and in bondage to the lusts of the flesh empowered by law, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man, who is a spiritual man who is spiritually righteous by nature, not by legal obligation.

Christians who are following this, and disagree with mad, can you see where the madists do not understand walking in the Spirit?

Masists don't know what being born again means, and they reject what the bible teaches about it. This makes them extremely cultish, so don't be taken in by them.

Lol - what is a "masist" ?

Wouldn't that be Nihilo?

Nihilo is the one forever going on about the RCC :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.

 

[glorydaz]

This proves what I'm saying is true. What this person is saying is, "I want the freedom to be carnal, and so I'll boast in Christ's works to feel better about being powerless in the flesh".

The works of the law are not not directed towards the spiritual man, but the madist is trying to explain that the works of the law are not for the natural man. Yes they are.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

And so if a person walks according to the flesh, condemnation remains. And condmnation is empowered by the law.

The madist answer is that the law no longer exists, and so the carnal man is free from righteous obligation.... man can now please himself, and use a perverted gospel to feel good about it.




You've reinforced everything I said. And btw, repentance simply means 'change'.

Andy, you seem to have a problem understanding what Paul has written. The flesh refers to unbelievers who are carnal....natural men. Those who have the Spirit dwelling in them are NOT in the flesh. We are spiritual men not natural men. Old man/new man.

ROMANS 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.​

I'm surprised you don't know this since you claim to understand what it means to walk in the Spirit. :think:

 

[glorydaz]

I guess it never dawned on you that we don't need to boast about "walking in the Spirit", because we understand boasting is excluded by the law of faith. We're quite confident being members of the body of Christ...seated with Him in heavenly places. Is it the lack of charismatic theatrics you think we're missing?

I spent most of my life as a believer never even having heard the term MAD. I understood the dispensation of Grace but didn't know the particulars of why things changed from the Gospels to Paul's letters. And, in all those years prior to hearing of mad, we didn't talk about "walking in the Spirit"....it was walking by faith.

Your premise is flawed. Period.

Are you seeing this?

Walking in the Spirit is the law of faith, and these people are acting like rabbits dazzled by the headlights, because they do not understand any of it. You know why? Because mad only focuses on the hopelessness of the flesh. Their confused gospel makes excuses for it, not directs people to the answer.

Golly, another one who can't read. Did I say "Walking in the Spirit is the law of faith"?

Look real hard, and tell me where you see that. Perhaps you're the deer in the headlights. :chuckle:

 

[God's Truth]

Lol - what is a "masist" ?

Wouldn't that be Nihilo?

Nihilo is the one forever going on about the RCC :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.

You get stuck on a letter and do you think your posts never have a typo?

 

[Danoh]

This proves what I'm saying is true. What this person is saying is, "I want the freedom to be carnal, and so I'll boast in Christ's works to feel better about being powerless in the flesh".

The works of the law are not not directed towards the spiritual man, but the madist is trying to explain that the works of the law are not for the natural man. Yes they are.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

And so if a person walks according to the flesh, condemnation remains. And condmnation is empowered by the law.

The madist answer is that the law no longer exists, and so the carnal man is free from righteous obligation.... man can now please himself, and use a perverted gospel to feel good about it.




You've reinforced everything I said. And btw, repentance simply means 'change'.

Actually, Andy, some MADs will differ in their understanding of this issue.

Case in point, the view I hold to and that many MADs mostly outside of TOL also hold to...

Our view is that in Romans 7 and 8, Paul is talking about how that the Believer who attempts to please God through keeping the Law only ends up at the Law's intended failure through its setting off of the flesh, and as a result, the utter accompanying sense of self-condemnation, or sense of failure that that can only result in - a sense of "o wretched man that I am - who shall deliver me from the body of this death!"

The view is that Christ has redeemed the Believer from the sense of self-condemnation attempting to keep the Law for very long could not but result in eventually, because it was weak thru the flesh.

That those who attempt to please God in their own strength thru keeping the Law will only find that they cannot please God for very long with any consistency, though they'd like to because they delight in the principle of pleasing God after the inward man.

Problem is, what the phrase "carnally minded" is referring to - to one's "I know what - I'll just keep this and that commandment and that will please God!"

Nice and ever endless Roman Catholic treadmill, but nope; no cigar.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Now there's the ticket!

If you'll just walk in a clear understanding of what the Scripture asserts the Spirit Himself accomplished in you in the very moment that you trusted that Christ died for yours sins, you'll live...unto God!

Which means getting in the Word, to study out there, what all your having been accepted in the Beloved is all about.

Or as the Apostle Paul had put that in another chapter he had also actually been talking about this same issue...

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Danoh]

You get stuck on a letter and do you think your posts never have a typo?

I'm sure he'll be aware I was simply ribbing him.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[andyc]

Actually, Andy, some MADs will differ in their understanding of this issue.

Case in point, the view I hold to and that many MADs mostly outside of TOL also hold to...

Our view is that in Romans 7 and 8, Paul is talking about how that the Believer who attempts to please God through keeping the Law only ends up at the Law's intended failure through its setting off of the flesh, and as a result, the utter accompanying sense of self-condemnation, or sense of failure that that can only result in - of "o wretched man that I am - who shall deliver me from the body of this death!"

The view is that Christ has redeemed the Believer from the sense of self-condemnation attempting to keep the Law for very long could not but result in eventually, because it was weak thru the flesh.

That those who attempt to please God in their own strength thru keeping the Law will only find that they cannot please God, though they'd like to because they delight in the principle of pleasing God after the inward man.

Problem is is what the phrase the "carnally minded" is referring to - to one's "I know what - I'll just keep this and that commandment and that will please God!"

Nice and ever endless Roman Catholic treadmill, but nope; no cigar.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Now there's the ticket!

If you'll just walk in a clear understanding of what the Scripture asserts the Spirit Himself accomplished in you in the very moment that you trusted that Christ died for yours sins, you'll live...unto God!

Which means getting in the Word, to study out there, what all your having been accepted in the Beloved is all about.

Or as the Apostle Paul had put that in another chapter he had also been talking about this issue...

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

Rom. 5:8.

Exactly right.

So what intrigues me is how you can identify with the madists here who cannot relate to what you've said above. For me this is the sinister element of mad. All the eschatology and dispensational stuff doesn't really matter to me, although I disagree with it, it is this issue that exposes something that I believe is cultish.

 

[andyc]

Golly, another one who can't read. Did I say "Walking in the Spirit is the law of faith"?

Look real hard, and tell me where you see that. Perhaps you're the deer in the headlights. :chuckle:

No. I said it. Walking in the Spirit IS the law of faith.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (faith) has made me free from the law of sin and death (works).

 

[Danoh]

Exactly right.

So what intrigues me is how you can identify with the madists here who cannot relate to what you've said above. For me this is the sinister element of mad. All the eschatology and dispensational stuff doesn't really matter to me, although I disagree with it, it is this issue that exposes something that I believe is cultish.

That's because this is one those areas where some within MAD hold a different understanding.

Though I have encountered entire Mid-Acts based assemblies where this is taught as I laid it out.

And there are many - in Florida, in Illinois, in Tennessee, in Pennsylvania, in Califorinia, in Puerto Rico, in Southeast Asia, various parts of Europe, etc., and they can be found throughout China.

And there are various of them teaching on YouTube, etc.

The distinction is between Mid-Acts Pauline Dispensational (mostly those ever beating others over the head about how this or that is "not for us" triple exclamation points in red, lol) and what is actually a different group - Mid-Acts Pauline Grace Dispensational.

This latter group will tend to be much more curious about and, greatly emphasize what they refer to as The Grace Life.

Or the Law (or operating principle) of the Spirit - of Life - of living in - Christ Jesus - that the Spirit has enabled the Believer with the ability to, from the moment he was justified, and that He has enabled said Believer access to, by Faith.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

In other words, the understanding is get in the Scripture, study out who God has made you in His Son from the moment in which you believed, and then simply believe that, and walk in that by faith.

And being that the Spirit is the one teaching you about all that through The Word, based on how you approach The Word: this is what Walking in the Spirit refers to...

To properly studying these things out, believing them, and then deciding to walk in them by faith, or because that is what The Word says to do.

In other words just as you received His grace by faith...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

You access its intended enablement by faith...

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Forgive me, this is probably my favorite Pauline subject; I could go on about it forever, as that is the vast majority of the Apostle Paul's focus in Romans thru Philemon.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Again, there are many, many like this within Mid-Acts.

Their focus tends to be far more on that then on forever beating people over the head with how that this or that in Scripture "is not for us!!!"

In other words, I'll have to beg to differ with you once more - in actual practice, Mid-Acts is anything but...a cult.

The seeming cult-like "our way or the high-way" of an ever rude and crude individual here and there is far and away more the exception, than the rule.

And such are found even among Pentecostals, which is not only the basic group you appear to identify yourself with, but within which I personally know such rude and crude types can also be found in.

Heck, you and I are not always a picnic with others either :chuckle:

Nevertheless, Romans 14:5 towards you, in memory of Romans 5:8.

 

[Tambora]

This proves what I'm saying is true.

No, it shows that you purposely lie about MAD

What this person is saying is, "I want the freedom to be carnal, and so I'll boast in Christ's works to feel better about being powerless in the flesh".

And now you lie about me.
I've never said anything like that.

And btw, repentance simply means 'change'.

Which is why we are always correcting folks like GT who insist that "repented" means "stopped sinning".
When pointed out to them that GOD repented, and therefore the word cannot mean "stopped sinning".
Perhaps you should join us in correcting her instead of lying about what MAD says.

 

[God's Truth]

No, it shows that you purposely lie about MAD

And now you lie about me.
I've never said anything like that.

Which is why we are always correcting folks like GT who insist that "repented" means "stopped sinning".
When pointed out to them that GOD repented, and therefore the word cannot mean "stopped sinning".
Perhaps you should join us in correcting her instead of lying about what MAD says.

God does not have to repent of sins, we humans do.

 

[Tambora]

And so in this thread you're going to understand why this is, and how they really interpret grace, and why they're on a witch hunt for anyone mentioning anything about work, repentance, baptism, going to church, godliness, holiness etc

Wrong again, as MAD discusses all those things.
It is you in thread that is doing a witch hunt.

 

[God's Truth]

Wrong again, as MAD discusses all those things.
It is you in thread that is doing a witch hunt.

The reason why it is so hard to get people out of false doctrines is because they just don't see it. I think that you and other madists just can't see what your doctrines imply. Try telling a Mormon what their doctrines imply and they just can't see it; and show them Galatians 1:8 they will make every excuse why it isn't what they are doing. That is what madists do when faced with the scriptures that plainly, clearly, rebuke them.

 

[Danoh]

The reason why it is so hard to get people out of false doctrines is because they just don't see it. I think that you and other madists just can't see what your doctrines imply. Try telling a Mormon what their doctrines imply and they just can't see it; and show them Galatians 1:8 they will make every excuse why it isn't what they are doing. That is what madists do when faced with the scriptures that plainly, clearly, rebuke them.

According to you, and from where you look at things from when you study out the various passages, on one thing or another.

As with anyone else on here; including the MADist.

Thing is, so many differing views cannot all be right.

I'm curious - what, if anything; do you agree with Mid-Acts on?

Rom. 5:8.

 

[God's Truth]

According to you, and from where you look at things from when you study out the various passages, on one thing or another.

No, it isn't like that. I believe what is plainly written. What is plainly written is that God gives understanding to those who OBEY.
Madists go against obeying, therefore that is more proof that they are wrong and have no understanding.
You can't go against obeying God, I mean who does that? It puts one outside the truth completely when going against others.

As with anyone else on here; including the MADist.

Thing is, so many differing views cannot all be right.

I'm curious - what, if anything; do you agree with Mid-Acts on?

They go against obedience to Christ. There is probably nothing that I agree with them on.

By the way, could you tell me what you agree with me?

 

[Tambora]

On to the next lie AndyC tells.

It all starts in the garden of Eden.

It starts before the foundation of the world.

God created Adam as a flesh being from the dust of the ground, and created him to have dominion over the natural physical earth. Man was subject to nothing and no one, except for one word of warning, to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As long as Adam and Eve abstain from the forbidden fruit, they could live a life pleasing themselves (the flesh life). God originally created us to please ourselves. [/quote]
MAD does not teach that Adam was created to please himself.

Until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would be unable to be a slave to either. Adam was morally neutral, and therefore the fleshly man was free from moral obligation. There was nothing to rebel against, because there was no law in existence.

What????
Before the command to not eat of the tree, what law was there for Adam to rebel against that would condemn him?
Answer: none.
As scripture says, when there is no law there is no law to rebel against, and therefore no law to condemn.
Pretty simple stuff.

 

[Danoh]

No, it isn't like that. I believe what is plainly written. What is plainly written is that God gives understanding to those who OBEY.
Madists go against obeying, therefore that is more proof that they are wrong and have no understanding.
You can't go against obeying God, I mean who does that? It puts one outside the truth completely when going against others.



They go against obedience to Christ. There is probably nothing that I agree with them on.

By the way, could you tell me what you agree with me?

Well, obviously, if you do not agree with the MADist on anything , than what is left for the MADist to agree with you on? :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Tambora]

This is the madist interpretation of what it's like to be free from the law. It's not a freedom as a result of spiritual birth/regeneration, but rather they see it as a freedom from moral obligation, in order to neutralise the rebellious nature of the flesh.

Wrong again.
The death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ did not neutralize the rebellious nature of the flesh.
The saved man still sins in the flesh and the flesh man will still be prosecuted in the flesh for committing crimes.
What those sins in the flesh cannot do is negate your salvation which was provided by the obedience and righteousness of Christ, not our own. Rom 5:18-19