ECT MAD fails on the gift and age of the Spirit

Interplanner

New member
You're not good at being slippery. The issue isn't simply that the Jews were to be informed first. That is true. The issue, more precisely, is that they were the ONLY ones being informed at that time, to the EXCLUSION of everyone else. The children came first.

And guess what?

It was all according to plan, just as Christ said.



List them please. Let's examine them one at a time.


the sense of 'first' in Paul is mission strategy. It was to get them as preachers in to the mission. See the middle of Rom 10 through 11. 11 is about goading or urging them into the mission, not about a restored theocracy. Same sentiment as Acts 26:29. The theocracy and worship system was dismissed earlier in 26 at 6-8.
 

TweetyBird

New member
You're not good at being slippery. The issue isn't simply that the Jews were to be informed first. That is true. The issue, more precisely, is that they were the ONLY ones being informed at that time, to the EXCLUSION of everyone else. The children came first.

And guess what?

It was all according to plan, just as Christ said.


List them please. Let's examine them one at a time.



Matt 15
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


John 12
20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21 the same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. 26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matt 8
5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 and saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

John 4
4 And he must needs go through Samaria. 5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.


Matt 12
14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. 15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; 16 and charged them that they should not make him known: 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. 21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.


There was also the Roman centurion at the cross.
 

musterion

Well-known member
1. Canaanite woman: acknowledged her place beneath the Jews to whom He was sent. She saw the order you ignore and abided in it. He rewarded her faith in something many Jews were refusing to believe, and praised her faith in knowing her place.

2. Greeks: it tells you plainly that they came to worship at the feast. Who does that tell you about them? And did He grant their request for an audience?

3. The Centurion:

Luke 7:3-5:
And when he [the centurion] heard of Jesus, he sent unto Him the elders of the Jews, beseeching Him that He would come and heal his servant. And when they came to Jesus, they besought Him instantly, saying that he [the centurion] was worthy for whom He should do this: for he [the centurion] loves our nation and he [the centurion] hath built us a synagogue.

ONLY THEN did the centurion speak to Him. See, the centurion understood the order, had even blessed the Jews. But he knew he was not worthy that Christ should even come under his roof. Yet he too was rewarded on the basis of acknowledging his place low in the order, which you disregard.

4. Samaritan woman: a halfbreed who acknowledged her low position in the order (which you ignore), and was rewarded like the others on that basis.

All of them we're making faithless Jews look bad by acknowledging they were beneath the children of Israel in God's order, which proves MAD's point.
 
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Interplanner

New member
1. Canaanite woman: acknowledged her place beneath the Jews to whom He was sent. She saw the order you ignore and abided in it. He rewarded her faith in something Jews were refusing to believe.

2. Greeks: it tells you plainly that they came to worship at the feast. Who does that tell you about them?

3. The Centurion:

[FONT=&]Luke 7:3-5: [/FONT]

The centurion understood the order you disregard, had even blessed the Jews. He too was rewarded on that basis.

4. Samaritan woman: a halfbreed who acknowledged her position in the order (which you ignore), and was rewarded like the others on that basis.

All of them acknowledged they were beneath the children of Israel in God's order, which proves MAD's point.



Proving Israelolatry are we? All of these things prove that the nations were to be blessed in the mission of God; that that was already underway. Since Jonah, as far as that goes.

The Phoenician was praised for her faith, which was NOT found in Israel. So...I guess he wasnt' after an ethne, was he? He was seeking those who had faith.
 

TweetyBird

New member
1. Canaanite woman: acknowledged her place beneath the Jews to whom He was sent. She saw the order you ignore and abided in it. He rewarded her faith in something many Jews were refusing to believe, and praised her faith in knowing her place.

She was a Canaanite women. She was not a Jew/of the House of Israel. Jesus healed a Gentile.

Greeks: it tells you plainly that they came to worship at the feast. Who does that tell you about them?

That they were Greeks, not Jews, who came to worship at the feasts. Non-Jews worship at the feasts yet today.

The Centurion:

[FONT=&]Luke 7:3-5: [/FONT]

ONLY THEN did the centurion speak to Him. See, the centurion understood the order, had even blessed the Jews. But he knew he was not worthy that Christ should even come under his roof. Yet he too was rewarded on the basis of acknowledging his place low in the order, which you disregard.

He was a Roman centurion who had authority over his own troops. He was not a Jew/of the House of Israel.

Samaritan woman: a halfbreed who acknowledged her low position in the order (which you ignore), and was rewarded like the others on that basis.

Samaritans were not considered Jews, not part of the House of Israel, yet Jesus came and preached to her, intentionally.

All of them we're making faithless Jews look bad by acknowledging they were beneath the children of Israel in God's order, which proves MAD's point.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus taught and ministered to the Gentiles while coming only for the House of Israel. Just as God has done throughout Biblical history even before Mt Sinai.
 

Interplanner

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The 'first to the Jews' theme in the NT was a missions strategy; it was to use the leverage of their skills to spread the gospel as widely as possible in the 1st century as quickly as possible. Oh, and btw, it worked! Spain to India in that generation.

But Zionism and superiority were summarily dismissed.
 

Danoh

New member
1. Canaanite woman: acknowledged her place beneath the Jews to whom He was sent. She saw the order you ignore and abided in it. He rewarded her faith in something many Jews were refusing to believe, and praised her faith in knowing her place.

2. Greeks: it tells you plainly that they came to worship at the feast. Who does that tell you about them? And did He grant their request for an audience?

3. The Centurion:

Luke 7:3-5:

ONLY THEN did the centurion speak to Him. See, the centurion understood the order, had even blessed the Jews. But he knew he was not worthy that Christ should even come under his roof. Yet he too was rewarded on the basis of acknowledging his place low in the order, which you disregard.

4. Samaritan woman: a halfbreed who acknowledged her low position in the order (which you ignore), and was rewarded like the others on that basis.

All of them we're making faithless Jews look bad by acknowledging they were beneath the children of Israel in God's order, which proves MAD's point.

Yep - which is what this is actually talking about - about that.

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Such Gentiles would put those "called a Jew" to shame...
 

SaulToPaul

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Versus your junkie, gay, ugly "pic," ? baldie? Lack confidence, do you, loser? Yes....

Settle down, fella. Everyone knows that you, Ange, Big Barn, and the new Doctor in town are on a different level than this 1 Mind 1 Spirit fella from Mt Pilot.
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
Settle down, fella. Everyone knows that you, Ange, Big Barn, and the new Doctor in town are on a different level than this 1 Mind 1 Spirit fella from Mt Pilot.
A man gets his Dash Rip Rock looks periodically groomed, including his Sampson like locks, adds a little Witch Hazel, and "Midnight Madness" cologne, gets the old salt and pepper pressed, and hat polished, and what does he get, Mayor? Heart aches! I'm quite high spirited, you know....
 

SaulToPaul

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Silver Subscriber
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A man gets his Dash Rip Rock looks periodically groomed, including his Sampson like locks, adds a little Witch Hazel, and "Midnight Madness" cologne, gets the old salt and pepper pressed, and hat polished, and what does he get, Mayor? Heart aches! I'm quite high spirited, you know....

:chuckle:

Well, you aren't a picknicking playboy anyway, you're a stock trader....am I right fella?
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
:chuckle:

Well, you aren't a picknicking playboy anyway, you're a stock trader....am I right fella?

And part time brine taster,fountain pen repairman. I quit the real estate business, as too many people were gipping me out of my commissions.
 

SaulToPaul

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And part time brine taster,fountain pen repairman. I quit the real estate business, as too many people were gipping me out of my commissions.

I'm thinking of going into the lucrative business of septic tank sales.
 
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