Mad but Im not pretrib

Swifty357

New member
He will wipe away all ours tears. He will then fulffill all promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Even the one to Israel that a dece ndant of David will rule over Israel forever. He shall be our God and we shall be his sons forever. The God who can't lie has promised us these things. And we shall learn war no more

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Nang

TOL Subscriber
He will wipe away all ours tears. He will then fulffill all promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Even the one to Israel that a dece ndant of David will rule over Israel forever. He shall be our God and we shall be his sons forever. The God who can't lie has promised us these things. And we shall learn war no more

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This describes the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem, that will be inhabited by Christ's church in the "new earth." This is the experience of every Christian when they resurrect to everlasting life. This is the Kingdom of God promised by covenant to all believers throughout the Holy Scriptures.
 

Swifty357

New member
The whole old testament and the kingdom of God promised in. New testament was all about these things. If Israel would have accepted peters offer to them Jesus Christ would've come back to rreign Israel by 40 ad. We gentiles of the grace of god basically were blessed because of Israel's unbelief.

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Swifty357

New member
Things that differ by C.R. Stam helped me tremendously years ago. I was trying to follow leviticus health laws. I was always worried about my salvation. Thinking i wasn't working hard enough. I would go to the fax machine at kroger and print off a bunch of hand written tracts and pass them out at walmart I was 17 years old. My dad used to make fun of me he thought I was nuts. He was an unbeliever at the time and raised me alone. I was very worried about Sabbath keeping but ignorant. Scared i wasn't keeping it right. I got baptized at least 5 different ways. In the name of jesus Christ by Pentecostal

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Swifty357

New member
My dad had me go to a psychologist. He also entertained the idea of getting me a call girl because he thought It would get my priorities straight. Later in life got lead my dad to the Lord. He died in 2007 so I'm glad he finally came to the lord. Grace let me rest in the finished work of Christ.

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Swifty357

New member
Taught me the marching orders for us today. stopped me feeling the need to be baptized by everyone. Made me realize I wasn't under the food laws. I stopped worrying about Sabbath keeping and burning myself out with self righteous works. Helped me realize I wasn't Israel and not subject to old testament law. Focusing on Paul And the revelation of the mystery let me know faith in Christ via grace was a perfect and only way to be saved. Yeah Stam really helped me. Things that differ hasn't taught me to limit my viewpoint. It actually gave me eyes to see. Got me off the religious treadmill.

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Swifty357

New member
Being abandoned as a child made me always doubt myself my salvation and I always felt unworthy for Christ which lead to all the trying to keep ot laws and always nneeding to say different pprayers for salvation. Try everybody's method of baptism. When I was truly born again by grace when I realized it wasntbsomething effort could so. But all reseted on what Jesus did for me. And my faith in Christ and his finished work lifted a huge weight off my back. .classic Christianity by bob George helped me also around the same time.

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whitestone

Well-known member
Swifty, it's good that you began to see to rightly divide after reading Stam(a D.'ist) but the deciding set of things written are the scriptures.

If you think about it a "book about" is about the same thing as "a post in a thread on a forum",but it is a lot longer and you had to buy the book.

In the end though after you read the book you still sit back and reason through if it matched the things written in the scriptures and if it doesn't then what,,toss out the book or the scriptures? So all the books and all of our opinions have something to be measured against "scripture",thats the thing about books.

The letters from the first century Nicene fathers,church fathers,apostolic fathers ect. are they scripture or are they books about that need to be examined to see if they say the same as the scriptures? so every book about and every post we read is to be measured by the scripture,,,
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I do wonder what would happen if a member of the body of Christ took the antichrist mark of the beast. I don't believe grace believers can lose our salvation. But taking the mark is guaranteed damnation . Christ would probably protect us so they can't get to us. We may be invisible from satan. Getting fed mana from heaven possibly


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Or..... you're just not there.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I agree with all the other mid acts doctrines. I would love to stop worrying about this but its been a thorn in my side since i became a grace believer because i dread any mention of pretrib rapture, or prophecy vs mystery talk because i know its probably just going to bring up hard feelings if i voice my objections, speaking about actually physically fellowshipping with the like minded. And i sure dont want to cause any strife with fellow believers, but also dont want to hide my head in the sand either.
I'm going to make a suggestion that is really just my unprofessional psychology attempt.

You keep looking because you know something ain't adding up.
When you read Stam's book, you had an "Ahha" moment because you realized the BOC (Body Of Christ) is not Israel. (And that's why things didn't seem to add up before, because they were contradictory if about the same unit --- BOC as Israel ---- instead of them being different units --- BOC and Israel.

Now mind you that you had the exact same bible to learn that from that you had before.

Here comes my unprofessional psychology ........

Now you are seeking the pre-trib rapture because you know something ain't adding up with your present thinking.
And one of the things that ain't adding up is that God's wrath is not for the BOC.
As Clete and Danoh have so elegantly explained, we are Christ's body and God is not going to pour out his wrath on His Son again.

You have expressed the opinion that maybe we will be here to evangelize, and be protected.
All you gotta do now is find some scripture that says the BOC will be protected during the wrath.
I think you can find scripture for the protection of Israel during the wrath, but Israel is not the BOC.


BTW, I believe in a rapture.
I just don't believe some of the verses that some, in the rapture camp, use are about the rapture at all.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Temp Banned
I've been a mad since I read things that differ by Stam in 1994. But I've never been able to convince myself that a pretrib rapture is biblical. I've tried to find it. But 2 thessalonians seems to say the antichrist and the tribulation come first.

Enoch didn't do what people say, but that can be another thread.

You have already had valid points made to you and if you converse and don't go a different direction I will show you. But I need to see where you really are. Meaning are you a child of God or still a vessel of wrath. You stated the Body of Christ is not to face wrath. What about second death? Can a member of the Body sin their way out of salvation? Are you OSAS, or can one lose salvation. Which is a contradiction in terms, but needed for our discussion.

I don't think Noah and the ark is showing a rapture either.

I will get to this, not that you need to know. I will let swifty think about it. Paul said he is revealing a mystery regarding the return. That means the Lord did not speak of it, nor did any prophets before him. Think about that for a bit while you decide if a member of the Body can sin their way out of salvation. That is a yes/no question. You don't need to expound.
 

Epoisses

New member
There is no
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we.
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We are gone. :rapture: Those Jews who will believe at that time are sealed. They evangelize the world (Re 7:4).

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...

:listen: They don't listen to us. :blabla: Haven't you noticed? Ro 11:25 They will listen to Moses and Elijah (Mal 4:6). :bowser: :bowser:

LOL. The golden parachute for the church, what a load of bunk. Did God rapture out the faithful who were mauled by lions in the arena? Did he rapture out his chosen who were burnt at the stake? The rapture is a delusion of the faithless who will submit to the beast in a matter of seconds when the tribulation begins. Just a disgrace to the name of Christ!!!
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Temp Banned
"Rapture" doesn't exist in scripture. So let's start there. Can the Body of Christ sin its way out of salvation? Can it lose its life? This is a yes/no question.
 

musterion

Well-known member
LOL. The golden parachute for the church, what a load of bunk. Did God rapture out the faithful who were mauled by lions in the arena? Did he rapture out his chosen who were burnt at the stake? The rapture is a delusion of the faithless who will submit to the beast in a matter of seconds when the tribulation begins.

The alternative view, your view, is that you hope you'll be righteous enough to endure unto the end, proving you worthy of earning salvation (assuming you've not fallen away first). Fair enough?
 

Epoisses

New member
The alternative view, your view, is that you hope you'll be righteous enough to endure unto the end, proving you worthy of earning salvation (assuming you've not fallen away first). Fair enough?

I believe and live by grace which is the opposite of earning. I'm a Christian who is solely dependent on Christ for everything. The word 'earn' is my enemy and the tool of Babylon.
 

musterion

Well-known member
I believe and live by grace which is the opposite of earning. I'm a Christian who is solely dependent on Christ for everything. The word 'earn' is my enemy and the tool of Babylon.

Please answer the question.

How will believers who make it through the Trib w/o falling away accomplish it?
 
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