oatmeal
Well-known member
I Thessalonians 4:16 "the dead in Christ shall rise first" does that mean the dead in Christ will "self-resurrect"?
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I Thessalonians 4:16 "the dead in Christ shall rise first" does that mean the dead in Christ will "self-resurrect"?
Now you are challenging Jesus directly not me. And he did in fact resurrect from the dead, but you aren't alone, even the apostles doubted.
Why should he need to repeat himself after the resurrection to suit your unbelief?
Sometimes people overanalyze and overthink things. People had faith in Jesus, they trusted him without arguing with him constantly on every point.
"follow me"
No, we aren't the Son of God, preexisting in heaven as eternal spiritual personalities. Jesus had that power, it was self existent within him already as God incarnate.
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18"No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Besides, if Jesus didn't mean what he said, he could have easily said it the way you guys want him to say it and it would have still been a profound, miraculous statement.
he would have said....."tear down this temple and in three days my Father will raise it up."
genuineoriginal
New member
I see you didn't want to look at what the verse actually states.
Try again.
Jesus was given all power.
Someone gave Jesus all power.
Who did it?
genuineoriginal
New member
I recommend you look at the verses you quoted again.
I highlighted some amazing things in them you seem to have missed.
The I AM is the source of all creation, he/it is the source of all existential spiritual beings.
The Son of God would be conscious of being ancestral to the I AM or his Father, yet they are eternal, outside of time.
The source of power and authority is the infinite, eternal I AM.
The Son who incarnate had only a theoretical beginning in eternity, finite man has a very real beginning in Time.
Dose that help?
You're confusing lord and LORD. They have different meanings.
I suggest you look at the entire thing instead of clipping out what you want to see to the exclusion of that which refutes your argument.
The incarnate Son addresses his existential identity and relationship with the Father brilliantly in his words without someone in finite time needing to do a hack job on it.
genuineoriginal
New member
You are avoiding answering the question.
Try again.
Jesus said all power is given to Him.
If Jesus is the Almighty, who gave Jesus (the Almighty) all power?
genuineoriginal
New member
I highlighted the parts I did because you were the one that was "clipping out what you want to see to the exclusion of that which refutes your argument."
Your argument has holes in it.
I understand that you are attempting to defend the classical Roman Catholic doctrine of Trinity.
The Bible never tells anyone to believe in the trinity.
It is as if the writers of the Bible had no concept of the trinity.
We are told in the Bible to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, we are not told to believe that Jesus is the Almighty.
Whether Jesus is the Almighty or not is actually meaningless as far as salvation and our faith is concerned.
With one exception: Those that teach that belief in the trinity (or denial of the trinity) is necessary for salvation will enter into condemnation as false teachers.
I did answer it, God the Father gave the Son his power in a theoretical point in eternity.
"I am in the Father and the Father is in me"
You are attempting to segregate the oneness of the Father and Son in order to make him purely human, to have a finite beginning in time.
Do you guys really care if you call Jesus is God instead His Father is God?
Nope, if you don't honor and strive to obey His teachings, He will tell you "I don't know you".
Jesus cherishes His followers godly fruit. That's how He told us to discern who is true believers or not, by our fruit, works. That's how we will be judged according to what we have done, not by what we claim. He does not approve of lip servers.
I have thread about reality of "Jesus is God" Christian community. take a look.
Nope, if you don't honor and strive to obey His teachings, He will tell you "I don't know you".
Jesus cherishes His followers godly fruit. That's how He told us to discern who is true believers or not, by our fruit, works. That's how we will be judged according to what we have done, not by what we claim. He does not approve of lip servers.
I have thread about reality of "Jesus is God" Christian community. take a look.
You have preconceived notions about me, I'm not defending the RCC's doctrine, only the identity and office of Jesus Christ.
Never did Jesus make understanding a Trinity part of salvation, salvation is by faith.
This is a common diversion, ignore the direct words of Jesus in its totality, go off and find an extrapolation from a correspondence which appears to contradict Jesus for your own purposes. Letters, btw, which made no claim of divine authorship but were made divine by the same RCC church that you battle with. :AMR:
keypurr
Well-known member
If Jesus did in fact raise himself it would have been recorded. But it is not.
You can not assume anything in scriptures. I know he said he could, but he didn't.
Because of the distortion of truth by the churches one needs to prove all things. Like Thomas, I need more than the half truths that the church supplies. However my faith that Christ is the son of God is stronger than most.
Posted from the TOL App!
genuineoriginal
New member
Don't confuse theoretical with actual or your argument devolves into saying that your theoretical God the Father gave your theoretical Son power in an actual point in time.
The truth is that the Almighty, who Jesus called Our Father, gave His only begotten Son all power over all things in heaven and earth, with the sole exception being that the Son was not given power over the Father.
As it is written:
1 Corinthians 15:27-28 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. |
You are attempting to segregate the oneness of Jesus and His followers in order to make the words you quote say something they don't say.
1 Corinthians 1:30 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: |
Holy cow!!!! " I know he said he could, but he didn't. "
You've now gone off the rails! Like Thomas????? Thomas, "my Lord and my God"
Maybe one day you will in fact be like Thomas the doubter who finally gets it. :idea:
Now I see your ego is getting the best of you. Stop taking yourself so seriously, get out a little, get some fresh air.
John made the same philosophical concession that I did in his beautiful opening prose,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind."
The Son is the Father of his own creation, his Father is the Triune personification of the I AM. They are indistinguishably linked in divinity.
Only in Hinduism.