Jesus is God !

[Lonster]

Show us where Jesus said that he was the second person of the Trinity.

I never said Jesus wasn't part of God. You just disagree before you read post. Jesus is divine, he is a divine Son of God.

The Trinity is on paradise, not in a condo in NJ.

These two don't sync at all. One is an admission, the other a challenge to the admission. :idunno:

 

[Caino]

These two don't sync at all. One is an admission, the other a challenge to the admission. :idunno:

God has divine Sons, he can have as many of them as he wants, yet we can only know them as God. We are personalities. Personalities can only really know God as One.

 

[Nanja]

If Jesus was not God, He was not qualified to die for men and pay the sin debts of millions of men who owed an infinite debt to God, also if He was not God, He Himself owed personal obedience to God, and would not be qualified to perform obedience that fulfilled the law for millions of others in their stead.

Amen Brother, exactly !

 

[Right Divider]

God has divine Sons, he can have as many of them as he wants, yet we can only know them as God. We are personalities. Personalities can only really know God as One.

The Bible says that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN Son.

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

You are NOT "divine" and never will be.

 

[Trump Gurl]

your post, "Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians" is wrong. There are people who fit that bill who are surely not Christians.

Demonstrate your assertion from the Catechism then. Because you appear to be contradicting its clear words.

First this: 818 All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians

You said: "Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians"

In fact: There are people who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but don't believe in baptism and don't believe in the Trinity, and have not been justified, or hadn't you considered that.

Like I said, there are some who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but are still not Christians.

That's one example. Do you need more?

 

[Lonster]

God has divine Sons, he can have as many of them as he wants, yet we can only know them as God. We are personalities. Personalities can only really know God as One.

Rd had a good response. For me, this still doesn't sync. Why would you say 'show me where it says' if the point was moot to begin with by these statements? Isaiah says Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. There is an equated tenor to Father and Son just as "I and the Father ARE one." People (like you) who do not understand have a problem grasping grammatical statements. "Are/One" is both separate and self-identity that is completely inescapable. Therefore: When you ask for what is evident (and clearly) in scripture, it shows 1) you have grammatical deficiencies and/or are really unfamiliar with the scripture.

 

[Lonster]

First this: 818 All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians

You said: "Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians"

In fact: There are people who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but don't believe in baptism and don't believe in the Trinity, and have not been justified, or hadn't you considered that.

Like I said, there are some who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but are still not Christians.

That's one example. Do you need more?

Exactly. James goes so far as to say "Even demons believe that."

 

[Right Divider]

First this: 818 All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians

In the body of Christ there is ONE baptism and there is not a drop of water involved.

THIS is the ONE baptism that Paul is talking about.

1Co 12:12-13 KJV For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Caino]

Rd had a good response. For me, this still doesn't sync. Why would you say 'show me where it says' if the point was moot to begin with by these statements? Isaiah says Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. There is an equated tenor to Father and Son just as "I and the Father ARE one." People (like you) who do not understand have a problem grasping grammatical statements. "Are/One" is both separate and self-identity that is completely inescapable. Therefore: When you ask for what is evident (and clearly) in scripture, it shows 1) you have grammatical deficiencies and/or are really unfamiliar with the scripture.

Again, Just like Right Divider, why do you feel like you have to talk down to people and be so nasty? Your religion hasn't had any effect on your character.

What I said was that Jesus never actually said that he was the second person of the Trinity.

 

[Caino]

The Bible says that Jesus is God's ONLY BEGOTTEN Son.

You are NOT "divine" and never will be.

Begotten just means unique, God has more sons. Like you aren't the only nasty person on TOL.

 

[Lonster]

Again, Just like Right Divider, why do you feel like you have to talk down to people and be so nasty? Your religion hasn't had any effect on your character.

Cheapshot :sigh: I didn't say anything but that you weren't as 'educated' on these as you seem to think you are. You've accused TG and RD of this. Is 'correction' seen as nasty and poor character to you??? :think:

What I said was that Jesus never actually said that he was the second person of the Trinity.

AND I showed you where it says that. Specifically? Like "I am the second person of the Trinity?" "Trinity" is a theology term used to describe something biblical, Caino. Try and keep up lest I question your theology literacy as well : Plain: (NONE of this nasty, unChristlike, or mean, NONE of it). Lest you think me calling you on your 'growing up' comment, it was closer to Nasty than anything I've ever come close to, and I really didn't take it as nasty or unChristlike from you, just not informed or true. There is a difference. Try not to conflate. You are very correct I disdain the UB as childish dribble, but that isn't nasty or unChristlike (just the opposite).

 

[Right Divider]

Begotten just means unique, God has more sons. Like you aren't the only nasty person on TOL.

No, it does NOT.

The Greek word translated "only begotten" (and no, I'm not a Greek scholar) contains a root word MONO... that means ONE, SINGULARLY.

I only appear nasty to you because you're a confused lunatic.

 

[Caino]

No, it does NOT.

The Greek word translated "only begotten" (and no, I'm not a Greek scholar) contains a root word MONO... that means ONE, SINGULARLY.

I only appear nasty to you because you're confused lunatic.

Adam is called a "son of God". Who else's son could he be? Whoever added "the only begotten son" to the scripture confused people.

Call me what you will, 1/3 of an indivisible unity cant leave and become an infant.

 

[Right Divider]

Adam is called a "son of God".

A son... not THE Son!

Call what you will, 1/3 of an indivisible unity cant leave and become an infant.

Jesus is FULLY GOD and not a heretical "part of God".

Col 1:19 KJV For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 2:9 KJV For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jesus is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS.

Col 1:15-17 KJV Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[Lonster]

Adam is called a "son of God". Who else's son could he be? Whoever added "the only begotten son" to the scripture confused people.

Call me what you will, 1/3 of an indivisible unity cant leave and become an infant.

This is caught in 'physical' ideas and physical reasoning. God is Spirit and is indivisible. How could you 'physically' divide Spirit? It is why scripture, without apology, says "Was 'with' God AND 'was' God." It is both at the same time because God is not physical, but 'became' flesh. You said you loved the Gospel of John. Even if not grasped, the clarity is unmistakable.

 

[Lonster]

No, it does NOT.

The Greek word translated "only begotten" (and no, I'm not a Greek scholar) contains a root word MONO... that means ONE, SINGULARLY.

I only appear nasty to you because you're a confused lunatic.

You grasp the Greek just fine here

 

[Idolater]

First this: 818 All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians

You said: "Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians"

In fact: There are people who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but don't believe in baptism and don't believe in the Trinity, and have not been justified, or hadn't you considered that.

Like I said, there are some who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, but are still not Christians.

That's one example. Do you need more?

1257 ...Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.... God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1260 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

836 All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind....

838 The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[Trump Gurl]

1257 ...Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.... God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

That means he can save non-Christians too. I am still correct.

 

[Idolater]

That means he can save non-Christians too. I am still correct.

@Caino is one of many here on TOL who "do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety" (838), but who nonetheless professes to believe in Christ, and in His Resurrection.

Nobody can formally convert to the Catholic faith without confessing our entire Creed, but anybody can come to Mass.

No Catholic is authorized to disbelieve any of what the magisterium teaches us as Apostolic. And as for who among the Noncatholics, are authentic Christians and who are not, there's an enormous spectrum of variations in particular beliefs, but all authentic Christians believe in the Lord Jesus.

 

[Caino]

This is caught in 'physical' ideas and physical reasoning. God is Spirit and is indivisible. How could you 'physically' divide Spirit? It is why scripture, without apology, says "Was 'with' God AND 'was' God." It is both at the same time because God is not physical, but 'became' flesh. You said you loved the Gospel of John. Even if not grasped, the clarity is unmistakable.

God the spirit has divine sons. They are different beings but united in spirit. Was with God (2 beings) and was God (united in spirit).