Jesus is God !

beloved57

Well-known member
That Jesus is God is testified to all over the scripture. He is King of Israel John 1:49


Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Isa 44:6

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Jesus said He was the first and the last Rev 1:16-17

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Clearly Jesus is referred to as God by Paul in this Titus verse Titus 2:13,14

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Note also that Jesus Christ is that Great God/ Man who gave Himself for us, for the purpose of redeeming us from all iniquity.

But I believe also Jesus is being referred to as God by Paul here as well Titus 1:3

But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Now wasnt Paul given the command and entrusted with the Ministry by Jesus Christ personally ? Acts 9:4-6


4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 26:15-17

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
 

marke

Well-known member
Clearly Jesus is referred to as God by Paul in this Titus verse Titus 2:13,14

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Note also that Jesus Christ is that Great God/ Man who gave Himself for us, for the purpose of redeeming us from all iniquity.

But I believe also Jesus is being referred to as God by Paul here as well Titus 1:3

But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Now wasnt Paul given the command and entrusted with the Ministry by Jesus Christ personally ? Acts 9:4-6




Acts 26:15-17
God sent Paul to preach the Gospel to every creature so that whoever would believe could be saved.

Romans 10:13-15
King James Version

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!​

 

beloved57

Well-known member
God sent Paul to preach the Gospel to every creature so that whoever would believe could be saved.

Romans 10:13-15​

King James Version​

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?​

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!​

Do you believe Jesus is God ?
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings 7djengo7,
So you don't believe Jesus is Man, since He is the Son of Man?
Nice to hear from you again after a long time. I occasionally drop in on one of these long running threads and yours is post number 4126 to see if you Trinitarians have resolved this issue, but I find that the same repetitious type posts are still current, similar to the one I answered and also to your post.

Jesus is both the Son of Man Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17 and the Son of God Luke 1:34-35.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Right Divider

Body part
I occasionally drop in on one of these long running threads and yours is post number 4126 to see if you Trinitarians have resolved this issue, but I find that the same repetitious type posts are still current, similar to the one I answered and also to your post.
Trinitarians resolved this issue a long time ago. You should believe God instead of whomever you are believing.
Jesus is both the Son of Man Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17 and the Son of God Luke 1:34-35.
Yes, Jesus is both man and God. He is God in the flesh as the Bible clearly says.
 

7djengo7

Well-known member
to see if you Trinitarians have resolved this issue

Resolved what issue?

Jesus is both the Son of Man Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17 and the Son of God Luke 1:34-35.

How do you excuse yourself in the face of your glaring self-inconsistency?

Out of the one side of your mouth, you admit the truth that Jesus' being the Son of Man does not exclude Jesus from being Man, whereas out of the other side of your mouth, you assert the falsehood that Jesus' being the Son of God excludes Jesus from being God.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again beloved57 and 7djengo7 and Greetings Right Divider and Bright Raven,
You wrong, He is both according to the scripture evidence.
The Son of God is God.
Yes, Jesus is both man and God. He is God in the flesh as the Bible clearly says.
Out of the one side of your mouth, you admit the truth that Jesus' being the Son of Man does not exclude Jesus from being Man, whereas out of the other side of your mouth, you assert the falsehood that Jesus' being the Son of God excludes Jesus from being God.
Much of the same. Jesus is the Son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and this excludes the concept that he is God. Good logic, or rather strange logic, as Jesus as the Son of Man is a descendant of the man Adam Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17.
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
The full quotation in its context helps to understand this passage.
1 John 5:18–21 (KJV): 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

My understanding of this subject has been stated in the thread "The Yahweh Name" and you may like to consider Posts #1 and 2 for starters.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

7djengo7

Well-known member
Jesus is the Son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and this excludes the concept that he is God.

What you're telling us is that, in order for Jesus to be YHWH the Son, Jesus would have to be YHWH the Father. Which, of course, is a ludicrous thing for you to tell us. You're telling us that, "Look, Jesus is not YHWH the Father, and therefore Jesus cannot be YHWH the Son."


Good logic, or rather strange logic, as Jesus as the Son of Man is a descendant of the man Adam Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17.

I've asked you to tell us why, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of Man does not preclude Jesus from being Man, since, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of God precludes Jesus from being God. When are you going to answer this question about your self-inconsistency?
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again 7djengo7,
I've asked you to tell us why, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of Man does not preclude Jesus from being Man, since, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of God precludes Jesus from being God. When are you going to answer this question about your self-inconsistency?
I am not interested in trying to untangle your logic. Jesus is a man, the Son of God because he is the son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

blueboy

Member
Greetings again beloved57 and 7djengo7 and Greetings Right Divider and Bright Raven,




Much of the same. Jesus is the Son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and this excludes the concept that he is God. Good logic, or rather strange logic, as Jesus as the Son of Man is a descendant of the man Adam Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17.

The full quotation in its context helps to understand this passage.
1 John 5:18–21 (KJV): 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

My understanding of this subject has been stated in the thread "The Yahweh Name" and you may like to consider Posts #1 and 2 for starters.

Kind regards
Trevor
This is the true God, and eternal life, is stating that the reality of God, His truth and eternal life are accessed by the perfect mirror, Jesus, who reflects all the qualities of God. Who in this age was the only mediator between humans and God.

This is not saying Jesus is literally God, because this would be nonsensical. Jesus made no claim that He was God.

That God the prefect Creator should enter the relative imperfection of physical reality is a strange imagining of God. Jesus was a path to the truth of God, to the true God, and to eternal life. He was not God Himself. Otherwise we have to imagine a God that needs to eat, defecate, becomes soiled and is eventually murdered by His own Created creatures.

I imagine that people don't know any better because suggesting Jesus is literally God, if thought through properly would have to be blasphemy against the perfect, eternal nature of God, who is transcendent, not subject to humans.

Son of God denotes the closeness of the relationship, the obedience a son has to the father, the son promoting the Will of the father and not his own, etc, it does not mean literal Sonship.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings blueboy,
Son of God denotes the closeness of the relationship, the obedience a son has to the father, the son promoting the Will of the father and not his own, etc, it does not mean literal Sonship.
I appreciate your positive contribution and agree with much of what you have stated. Nevertheless I consider that the following teaches that the One God, God the Father was the father of Jesus in the conception / birth process by means of the power of the Holy Spirit, while Mary was his mother.
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:30–35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


Kind regards
Trevor
 

beloved57

Well-known member
trevor

, as Jesus as the Son of Man is a descendant of the man Adam Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17.

Yeah thats Jesus as a Man, He is a descendant of Abraham and David according to the flesh Rom 1:3

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Thats why He is said to be off the offspring of David, but as God, He is Davids God and Creator, and He is said to be the root of David Rev 22:16



I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

That means He is responsible for the being of David. And you know historically David was born before Jesus. Thats why the jews were confounded when Jesus asked them this Matt 22:42-46

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

So again, Jesus is both God and Man !
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again beloved57,
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
That means He is responsible for the being of David. And you know historically David was born before Jesus.
I understand that this teaches that Jesus is the root of what David will be in his resurrection. Jesus is the source of life for all the faithful.
Thats why the jews were confounded when Jesus asked them this Matt 22:42-46
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
I understand that Jesus is David's Lord because Jesus is the Son of God. God the Father was the father of Jesus and thus he had a higher status and birth than David, who called Jesus his Lord in Psalm 110:1. He is Lord of all of the faithful also.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
This is the true God, and eternal life, is stating that the reality of God, His truth and eternal life are accessed by the perfect mirror, Jesus, who reflects all the qualities of God. Who in this age was the only mediator between humans and God.

This is not saying Jesus is literally God, because this would be nonsensical. Jesus made no claim that He was God.

That God the prefect Creator should enter the relative imperfection of physical reality is a strange imagining of God. Jesus was a path to the truth of God, to the true God, and to eternal life. He was not God Himself. Otherwise we have to imagine a God that needs to eat, defecate, becomes soiled and is eventually murdered by His own Created creatures.

I imagine that people don't know any better because suggesting Jesus is literally God, if thought through properly would have to be blasphemy against the perfect, eternal nature of God, who is transcendent, not subject to humans.

Son of God denotes the closeness of the relationship, the obedience a son has to the father, the son promoting the Will of the father and not his own, etc, it does not mean literal Sonship.
You say this unironically about a Man Who raised the dead numerous times. And then raised up from the dead Himself. And that all history records that His Church always right from the get-go always believed He is God. This is indisputable. You think both things are possible that He can apparently at will raise the dead, and that He established an institution which wrongly thought He was God become flesh? You think both things are true?

You do not understand grammar.
 
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