Jesus is God !

keypurr

Well-known member
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE God, the first born of every CREATURE.

Easy to see that Jesus could be seen so it is not about Jesus.
 

CHR_Iam_IST

Member
Christ the Creator is the FIRST creation.
NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture is CHRIST/JESUS/THE WORD [of GOD] referred to as "FIRST creation";
Where then do you get that MADE-UP NON-Scriptural phrase and then ascribe it to THE WORD [of GOD] made flesh (John 1:14) which came forth from [out of] THE FATHER / THE ETERNAL GOD?
 

Lon

Well-known member
It does not say JESUS is the creator, Jesus is a man born to Mary.
Jesus is a creation and so is the son of Col 1:15.
All images are creations.

The true Son of God is a spirit because he/it is the exact image of the Father. It is a created FORM of God for it was given he fullness of the Father, all things were created through this son.
Very convoluted. You'd literally have to show any scripture saying so (there is none). It is a deduction FROM scripture and open to everyone's intelligent scrutiny, thus. You don't get a 'pass' or "God revealed it to me." It MUST be clear from scripture. You'll not hear anything from me unless scripture says it. Contrast that with deduction. Induction is far superior for truth and doctrine in theology.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Very convoluted. You'd literally have to show any scripture saying so (there is none). It is a deduction FROM scripture and open to everyone's intelligent scrutiny, thus. You don't get a 'pass' or "God revealed it to me." It MUST be clear from scripture. You'll not hear anything from me unless scripture says it. Contrast that with deduction. Induction is far superior for truth and doctrine in theology.
I think I have Lon. John 17:3 is very clear to me.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
That's not what scripture says.

Confusion reigns with you.
It is what is said in scripture, read Gen 1...and the SPIRIT moved across the face of the warters...
Christ was/is a SPIRIT and all was done through it/him.

Think of what could mean. Christ is a spirit of God. it/he was GIVEN the power, fullness of his creator. Heb 1 tells us that God praises the creation of the Universe done by his son. Phil 2 tells us that this spirit son is a FORM of God, a god, who took the form of man. Study it RD, it took me a long time to see this.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture is CHRIST/JESUS/THE WORD [of GOD] referred to as "FIRST creation";
Where then do you get that MADE-UP NON-Scriptural phrase and then ascribe it to THE WORD [of GOD] made flesh (John 1:14) which came forth from [out of] THE FATHER / THE ETERNAL GOD?
You need to study more. Pray for help, I do and it works.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I think I have Lon. John 17:3 is very clear to me.
🤔 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3
It does not say JESUS is the creator, Jesus is a man born to Mary.
Nope, no John 17:3 here.... 🤔
Jesus is a creation and so is the son of Col 1:15.
Nope, no John 17:3 here.... 🤔
All images are creations.
No John 17:3.....
The true Son of God is a spirit because he/it is the exact image of the Father. It is a created FORM of God
Nope, no John 17:3 here either. Me thinks Keypurr is overcompensating and making it up. I literally have nothing from God that says anything Keypurr assumes, is true at this point.
for it was given he fullness of the Father, all things were created through this son.
Awkward paraphrasing of Colossians 1:15-17

So, as an aside (since John 17:3 didn't address anything, literally at all), let's see what John 17:3 DOES necessarily say, AND what we 'guess' afterwards.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We may not squabble over the first part until we get to 'thee' so I'll start there: "Thee." Singular. "God" and "Jesus Christ" plural, the latter distinguished as 'having been sent.' So, a singular 'Thee' and not a 'both you and' that would have made YOUR assumption incredibly clear. Rather we have a singular in Greek followed by a plural. The ending of 'n' and 'Jesus' are the same such that 'thee' could be seen applying to either and/or both.

Note that eternal life is to the one that knows God AND Jesus Christ. I've seen your "I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ" on your sig, but never "I love the God of the Lord Jesus Christ, AND my Lord Jesus Christ" from you. Why? I think there is an obvious reason that has always struck me. You simply didn't choose to share any sentiment of love to a 'inferior being' in your own theology, right?


The more I grow into an able scholar, the more it means I am able to quote scripture verbatim rather than making it up as I go or awkwardly paraphrasing. Just the scriptures or it is just the "Lon" show (or Keypurr Show).
You need to study more. Pray for help, I do and it works.
Colossians 1:15 and you paraphrased it, yet again to mean what you want, rather than what it says, no?

If I cannot find it in the word of God C-L-E-A-R-L-Y, then I will always be humble and careful to tell you "this is what I think, tentatively.' I'm not audacious enough to claim I speak for God unless I post His very words. -Lon
 

JudgeRightly

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keypurr

Well-known member
🤔 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3

Nope, no John 17:3 here.... 🤔

Nope, no John 17:3 here.... 🤔

No John 17:3.....

Nope, no John 17:3 here either. Me thinks Keypurr is overcompensating and making it up. I literally have nothing from God that says anything Keypurr assumes, is true at this point.

Awkward paraphrasing of Colossians 1:15-17

So, as an aside (since John 17:3 didn't address anything, literally at all), let's see what John 17:3 DOES necessarily say, AND what we 'guess' afterwards.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We may not squabble over the first part until we get to 'thee' so I'll start there: "Thee." Singular. "God" and "Jesus Christ" plural, the latter distinguished as 'having been sent.' So, a singular 'Thee' and not a 'both you and' that would have made YOUR assumption incredibly clear. Rather we have a singular in Greek followed by a plural. The ending of 'n' and 'Jesus' are the same such that 'thee' could be seen applying to either and/or both.

Note that eternal life is to the one that knows God AND Jesus Christ. I've seen your "I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ" on your sig, but never "I love the God of the Lord Jesus Christ, AND my Lord Jesus Christ" from you. Why? I think there is an obvious reason that has always struck me. You simply didn't choose to share any sentiment of love to a 'inferior being' in your own theology, right?


The more I grow into an able scholar, the more it means I am able to quote scripture verbatim rather than making it up as I go or awkwardly paraphrasing. Just the scriptures or it is just the "Lon" show (or Keypurr Show).

Colossians 1:15 and you paraphrased it, yet again to mean what you want, rather than what it says, no?

If I cannot find it in the word of God C-L-E-A-R-L-Y, then I will always be humble and careful to tell you "this is what I think, tentatively.' I'm not audacious enough to claim I speak for God unless I post His very words. -Lon
How can a man as smart as you not understand the word "ONLY".You twist and turn and yet do not see what scripture tells you. Tradition is your God.
Reformers over the years brought bits of truth to the churches, but there is more truth yet to come. Your smooth talk will not get you through the gate Lon. Jesus told you that ONLY his FATHER is the TRUE GOD yet you turn your back to his words. You were given the gift of gab, it is a shame you do not use it to bring truth to light.
 

JudgeRightly

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How can a man as smart as you not understand the word

We understand it just fine.

YOUR problem is that you aren't recognizing
that where the "only" is in the sentence makes a huge difference.

"The Father is the only true God" (what scripture says)
IS NOT EQUAL TO
"Only the Father is the (only) True God" (what you want scripture to say/mean, but it doesn't).

Your darkness is deep. I suggest you get new batteries for your flashlight.

Childish insults won't get you anywhere, you heretic.

Repent.
 

Lon

Well-known member
How can a man as smart as you not understand the word "ONLY".
"Only" doesn't mean "three" Keypurr. I'm convinced you know very little of what a Trinitarian actually believes. There is only one God. We agree, or did you think not? Do you argue sometimes when we actually agree with you?
You twist and turn and yet do not see what scripture tells you.
I JUST posted where you said "John 17:3" and NONE of it said anything about what you said about Colossians 1:15-20. None at all.
It surely isn't me twisting and turning. WITH ME, just read the scriptures and say EXACTLY what they say without variance. When you do that with me, you'll be as 'triune' as I am.
Tradition is your God.
Is that what YOU are calling 'just scripture' these days? All you have to do is prove it WITHOUT paraphrasing. Just tell me what scripture says. I guarantee you will be close to me on the triune floor. Just read scriptures with me Keypurr. It is that easy, no appeal to authority, just reading what scripture says and leaving it alone.
Reformers over the years brought bits of truth to the churches, but there is more truth yet to come.
As long as they are scholars committed to knowing God/Jesus Christ (that slash can be thought of as an "and"), then I'm fine with some correction. Happened yet? Nope. Germans, Mormons, etc. have all tried.
Your smooth talk will not get you through the gate Lon.
Who said it would? You are drawing a line that is God's alone to draw. You don't GET to draw it, Keypurr. He does.
Jesus told you that ONLY his FATHER is the TRUE GOD
Show me. It has to say literally and verbatim. Show me, else YOU are making it up. It is as simple as that. YOU don't get to be God. He does.
yet you turn your back to his words.
SHOW ME! Show me literally the scripture. I've been here 20+ years. You've NEVER shown me one scripture that says what you do. Not once. Conversely? I can show you a scripture that says what I say, VERBATIM. I don't paraphrase, I quote. I don't make up stuff, I listen.
You were given the gift of gab,
Discernment. I don't have to gab. Scripture is scripture is scripture. I'll take it ALWAYS for the win! ALWAYS> it is the only thing that doesn't return void.
it is a shame you do not use it to bring truth to light.
Repeating nothing but scripture? Show me otherwise. You never have. When it comes time, you simply say things like this. You've John 17:3 and Colossians 1:15-20. Start teaching. I'm listening. Simply answer me: What does it actually say? No special pleading. No 'God somehow taught me (but I can't explain it adequately or give you any scripture that actually says so). There you go. Do it. The floor is your's to stand or fall on, just like scripture says about the Lord Jesus Christ. A Cornerstone of stone of stumbling. Get cracking. I'm all ears.
Jesus was a MAN, he had to be a man to be the Lamb, sacrifice for mankind. But the spirit IN him is a created FORM of God.
S-C-R-I-P-T-U-R-E that says EXACTLY that or no deal Keypurr.

Let me help kickstart for you:

John 1:1 "In the beginning the Word was with God and was God."

See that? Nothing but scripture. NOTHING-BUT-SCRIPTURE. See?

Another:

John 20:28 Thomas Said to Jesus (given verse 26 as 'Him'): 'You are the Lord of me and God of me!"

John 20:28 και απεκριθη ο θωμας και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου

It is just this clear. Simply show another what scripture says, like I do, and you'll be listened to. I've not appealed to 'God showed me' or any other ridiculous special pleading. Just what it says, Keypurr. When Jesus argued with the Sadducees, He simply quoted scripture verbatim. When Jesus addressed Satan, He used scripture verbatim again.

Point? Any argument is settled literally by the scriptures alone, not some prophetic special pleading.
 
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Idolater

Ultra MAGA
Jesus was a MAN, he had to be a man to be the Lamb, sacrifice for mankind. But the spirit IN him is a created FORM of God.
Look up in your Aramaic Bible in Plain English translation that you have Keypurr please, 1st Corinthians 11:29

For whoever eats and drinks from it being unworthy, eats and drinks a guilty verdict into his soul for not distinguishing the body of THE LORD JEHOVAH.​

Does the LORD JEHOVAH have a body?
 
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