Right Divider
Body part
Again for the Knuckleheads in the class, it does not say that only the father is the true God.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Lon
Well-known member
Quit posturing. Since it is about communion, how in the wide world can you think it means anything BUT the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ? Answer.
Because you aren't as bright as your betters?
You could use a couple of doses of humble, Keypurr. God opposes the proud.
Lon
Well-known member
Agree. YOU argue points nobody else is arguing. It means your 'ah ha' isn't what you thought it was. Not when we agree with about half of your points.
Only means only. If you were talking about me, I'm one flesh with my wife, according to the Bible. There are two of us. Somehow we are 'one' (an 'only'). Get it? Does it make any sense to you at all? God says it, not my invention.
Absence is a wholly different thing. YOU WORD things that cast poorly back upon yourself.
You don't "get" to qualify God. He qualifies Himself. LISTEN to Him, Keypurr!!! I demand it in our conversations. I posted three times now: POST ONLY SCRIPTURE and we'll get along infamously! ALL you have to do is say what scripture says AND NO MORE! That's it.
Good grief! YOU paraphrased scripture!!! YOU DID! Do you EVEN realize that???? DO YOU??? I simply quoted it, Keypurr!
Well, I can't care about that, Keypurr! YOU are the one that DIDN'T POST SCRIPTURE AND ONLY Scripture!!! YOU! YOU! I simply posted scripture and am discussing, openly, what those words must necessarily mean!
Let us go back over it:
1 John 5:19We know that we are of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one. 20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true— in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the TRUE God and eternal life.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3
Listen Keypurr: "AND Jesus Christ!" THIS verse isn't a proof text for Arians. It is a PROOF TEXT for eternal life! Knowing the "ONLY GOD AND JESUS CHRIST." Point? It is necessary to know both for eternal life AND their uniqueness. EVERY trinitarian agrees that God and Jesus in this sentence are separate. Nobody disagrees. What we disagree on is what YOU think it has to necessarily mean.
Now, let's revisit 'lost respect.' Reason: Because "Lon doesn't listen to my pet Unitarian interpretation that I think it must mean," even though the thrust isn't about that. It is wholly about eternal life.
Sorry Keypurr. I will continue to JUST READ scripture an you bet, reject your pet project because it is all Keypurr and runs away from what God intended. Go ahead and be a baby, Keypurr. IF you were simply committed to knowing God AND worked with people to learn what that meant, you'd not be doing this childish stuff. You will be who you will be no matter what I say, so you are correct, if you cannot show it is rational and reasonable, then absolutely, I cannot care. It is against truth and honesty. I'll stay that course no matter what.
keypurr
Well-known member
Is this what you want Lon?
John 17:3
(Bishops) This is lyfe eternall, that they myght knowe thee, the only true God, & Iesus Christe whom thou hast sent.
(ESV) And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent..
(Geneva) And this is life eternall, that they knowe thee to be the onely very God, and whom thou hast sent, Iesus Christ.
(GNB) And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
(ISV) And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent—Jesus the Messiah.
(KJV) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Murdock) And this is life eternal, that they may know thee, that thou art the only true God, and whom thou hast sent, Jesus Messiah.
(NAS77) "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
(NASB) "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NIrV) "And what is eternal life? It is knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(NIV) Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(NKJV) And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NRSV) And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(NRSVA) And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(YLT) and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send—Jesus Christ;
You can not sugar coat TRUTH.
John 17:3
(Bishops) This is lyfe eternall, that they myght knowe thee, the only true God, & Iesus Christe whom thou hast sent.
(ESV) And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent..
(Geneva) And this is life eternall, that they knowe thee to be the onely very God, and whom thou hast sent, Iesus Christ.
(GNB) And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
(ISV) And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent—Jesus the Messiah.
(KJV) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Murdock) And this is life eternal, that they may know thee, that thou art the only true God, and whom thou hast sent, Jesus Messiah.
(NAS77) "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
(NASB) "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NIrV) "And what is eternal life? It is knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(NIV) Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(NKJV) And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NRSV) And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(NRSVA) And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(YLT) and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send—Jesus Christ;
You can not sugar coat TRUTH.
Right Divider
Body part
Again... for the completely DEAF (that's you keypurr)...
This does NOT say that ONLY the Father is the true God. (no matter what you want it to say).
Lon
Well-known member
Which doesn't exclude Jesus 'if He and the Father are "One." Do you get that?
So listen: I agree as I've said three times now, that there are 3 distinct individuals called "God" and yet somehow, there is Only One.
Literally, this is why I'm triune: it means what I just said. That's it. I simply don't believe or go as far as you do, because such is deduction and then 'my' theology would be deduced rather than explicit from God. I want God's theology, not Lon's theology (or Keypurr's).
Only/very is interesting, isn't it.
You can't sugar coat it either. AT LEAST we can both read only what it exactly says without deducing something in our heads. The things 'in our heads' aren't God's. It means we made that part up ourselves. As long as you and I speak NOTHING but scriptures, this thread will go a long and meaningful way! Thank you for complying. It will be the most honest thread we've ever participated in, as long as we both commit to ONLY God's Word and then discuss what may or may not be wrong in our heads, conversely. Neither of us can go wrong when all we do is entertain what is implicitly true. On this one, we agree on everything that this scripture actually says. We both can call each other on the carpet for what is conversely in our heads NOT written in this verse. Does that sound like a fair and truthful exchange to you?
Greetings Right Divider and Lon,
Kind regards
Trevor
Just a brief hit and run in this endless repetitive thread, John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1 and much other Scripture teaches that there is Only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, by birth, by character and by resurrection.
John 10:30-36 clearly teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. Clear as crystal.
Kind regards
Trevor
And yet, you won't find one trinitarian who disagrees with any of that.
The problem is that your statement omits the fact that the Bible, scripture, teaches that Christ is also the only God, Yahweh, God the Son, and it also teaches that the Holy Spirit is the only God, Yahweh, God the Holy Spirit.
Indeed, but more importantly, it places Jesus on the same level as the Father.
Making Him equal with God...
Either that's blasphemy, or Jesus really is God.
False.
What's crystal clear is that you ignore what scripture says to push your own narrative of what the Bible says.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus is THE LORD from heaven.
How many THE LORD'S do you think that there are?
There is ONE LORD per scripture. The LORD GOD is the ONE LORD, The Lord Jesus Christ is God.
keypurr
Well-known member
YES IT DOES. And ONLY means ONLY.
keypurr
Well-known member
Here is another verse that states that the Son is a CREATURE, not God.
Colossians 1:15
(Bishops) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first borne of all creatures.
(ESV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(Geneva) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first begotten of euery creature.
(GNB) Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things.
(ISV) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(Murdock) who is the likeness of the invisible God, and the first-born of all creatures:
(NAS77) And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.
(NASB) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(NIrV) Christ is the exact likeness of God, who can't be seen. He is first, and he is over all of creation.
(NIV) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NRSV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(NRSVA) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(YLT) who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Twist if you must but the Son is a CREATURE.
Colossians 1:15
(Bishops) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first borne of all creatures.
(ESV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(Geneva) Who is the image of the inuisible God, the first begotten of euery creature.
(GNB) Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things.
(ISV) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(Murdock) who is the likeness of the invisible God, and the first-born of all creatures:
(NAS77) And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.
(NASB) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(NIrV) Christ is the exact likeness of God, who can't be seen. He is first, and he is over all of creation.
(NIV) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NRSV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(NRSVA) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
(YLT) who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Twist if you must but the Son is a CREATURE.
keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus is NOT from Heaven, the SPIRIT in him was.
Correction of your post:
1 Corinthians 8:6
(Bishops) Yet vnto vs is there but one God, [which is] the father, of whom are all thinges, and we in him, and one Lorde Iesus Christe, by whom are al thinges, and we by him.
(ESV) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
(Geneva) Yet vnto vs there is but one God, which is that Father, of whome are all things, and we in him: and one Lorde Iesus Christ, by whome are all things, and we by him.
(GNB) yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.
(ISV) yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom everything came into being and for whom we live. And there is only one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, through whom everything came into being and through whom we live.
(KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(Murdock) yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we also by him.
(NAS77) yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
(NASB) yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
(NIrV) But for us there is only one God. He is the Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord. He is Jesus Christ. All things came because of him, and we live because of him.
(NIV) yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
(NKJV) yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NRSV) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
(NRSVA) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
(YLT) yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
Have fun
No, it does not say, "Only Thee [the Father], the true God."
It says "Thee [the Father], the only true God."
Get it right.
How have you not noticed yet that LITERALLY NO ONE is disputing the meaning of "ONLY", but that you're the ONLY ONE disputing the position of the word ONLY in the verse?
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Right Divider
Body part
Yes, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the only true God.
You cannot understand English, so that is a problem for you.
Right Divider
Body part
keypurr
Well-known member
That is because I am not the one trying to rewright the scriptures.
keypurr
Well-known member
This verse speaks of the spirit IN Jesus. That spirit spoke through the body (Jesus) prepared for IT.
keypurr
Well-known member
Your hopeless, were you home schooled?
Right Divider
Body part
No, keypurr there was no "takeover" of Jesus Christ. His spirit is and always was the eternal spirit of God that was made flesh per John 1.
You are lost in your vain man-made philosophy.
Right Divider
Body part
YOUR? Were you schooled at all?