Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[JudgeRightly]

I have read the Gospels and Revelation.
What you are claiming is the purpose of each of the Gospels and your attempt to link that non-Biblical claim with the four beasts of Revelation are pure imagination and not anything that the Bible teaches.

I'm not attempting to link anything.

I'm showing you the ALREADY EXISTING LINK, which is evidence that He IS GOD.

You can rely upon your imagination to reinvent the Bible in your own image, but I won't do so.

You can deny Scripture and rely on your imagination to reinvent the Bible and God in your own image, but I'm going to let the Bible speak for itself, because it says that Jesus is God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm not attempting to link anything.

Sure you are. You are trying to make these links with nothing to support that attempt except your own imagination:

• Gospel of Matthew is the Lion of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Mark is the Ox of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Luke is the Man of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of John is the Eagle of Revelation's four beasts

You can deny Scripture and rely on your imagination to reinvent the Bible and God in your own image

I do not deny scripture, nor do I attempt to make it say something it does not say.

but I'm going to let the Bible speak for itself

I wish you would, since what you have been doing so far is anything but that.

it says that Jesus is God.

No, the Bible says that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

 

[Bright Raven]

Sure you are. You are trying to make these links with nothing to support that attempt except your own imagination:

• Gospel of Matthew is the Lion of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Mark is the Ox of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Luke is the Man of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of John is the Eagle of Revelation's four beasts

I do not deny scripture, nor do I attempt to make it say something it does not say.


I wish you would, since what you have been doing so far is anything but that.


No, the Bible says that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

Jesus Christ is eternal! He is God!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sure you are. You are trying to make these links with nothing to support that attempt except your own imagination:

• Gospel of Matthew is the Lion of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Mark is the Ox of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of Luke is the Man of Revelation's four beasts
• Gospel of John is the Eagle of Revelation's four beasts

Not my argument.

My argument was that the four gospels (and the rest of the Bible, for that matter) DESCRIBE JESUS AS a Lion, an Ox, a Man, and an Eagle.

I do not deny scripture, nor do I attempt to make it say something it does not say.

Yeah, you do.

You deny scripture that says Jesus is God, and you try to make it say that Jesus is not God.

I wish you would, since what you have been doing so far is anything but that.

I have been. You've been ignoring it.

No, the Bible says that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

Which is not a rebuttal of nor does it contradict my position which is that Jesus is God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Not my argument.

My argument was that the four gospels (and the rest of the Bible, for that matter) DESCRIBE JESUS AS a Lion, an Ox, a Man, and an Eagle.

You are imagining things.

The Gospel of Mark does not have the word ox in it.
The Gospel of John does not have the word eagle in it.

You deny scripture that says Jesus is God, and you try to make it say that Jesus is not God.

It doesn't matter how many times you try to claim that scripture says Jesus is God when the scripture itself states over and over that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible states that Solomon is the son of David.
The Bible states that David is the king of Israel.
The Bible states that Solomon is the king of Israel.
Trinitarian logic would claim that Solomon is David.

Is there any way for you to prove that Solomon is not David?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus Christ is eternal! He is God!

Have you ever believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

 

[Bright Raven]

Have you ever believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

Of course He is. The eternal Son of God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus Christ is eternal! He is God!

Have you ever believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

Of course He is. The eternal Son of God.

Claiming "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" is different from claiming that "Jesus Christ is God", unless you are using the word "god" differently in each of those two statements.

 

[Dartman]

Of course He is. The eternal Son of God.

Says no verse ever.

 

[Dartman]

And yet, you won't try to show me how I'm wrong.

1) It doesn't work like that.
When you make claims like you did, it is YOUR responsibility to show Scripture for your theory.
2) You have been shown how you are wrong repeatedly.

 

[clefty]

Jesus Christ is eternal! He is God!

Yes but He is NOT YHVH...There is Yahweh Who begot a Son...Before He begot a Son He alone was not even a Father...

and the Son was reborn as Yahushua...and is still the Son not the Father...but yes is a God...

But so would the donkey have been and lived forever and spoke and counseled and made followers but the Spirit of the ONLY TRUE GOD was removed and returned...and so the donkey didnt talk any more and died a donkey...

But had that Spirit remained in that donkey well we would have yet another God...

Just like man had become like ONE OF US...and so they kicked man out lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever as yet another god knowing good and evil...is why we are called gods...but cant live forever...but soon...

So yes Yahushua is God but not YHVH the Father...even He forsake His Son so that He died...

But it didnt end there and it don’t end there...soon, I pray, we will live forever too...dependent on the tree of life...

 

[7djengo7]

Greetings again 7djengo, Jesus addresses God His Father as the Lord of heaven and earth in the following:
Matthew 11:25-27 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Jesus does not say, that “we are Lord of heaven and earth”, rather these verses show the relationship between Jesus and His Father, in that God the Father is separate and distinct from Jesus, and the power and authority now vested in Jesus has been given to him from the Father.

Sorry, man. You fail. You did not answer the question I asked. Here, again, is the question that I asked:

In what Bible verse(s) does Jesus address, or refer to God the Father as "my Lord"?

I did NOT ask:

In what Bible verse(s) does Jesus address, or refer to God the Father as "Lord of heaven and earth"?

Why can't you answer the question that I DID ask?

To answer your question it is firstly necessary to define the two words translated “Lord” There are two words translated “Lord” in Psalm 110:1 and the translators have distinguished these by translating the Name of God the Father, YAHWEH as LORD and Jesus, David’s Lord as Lord. This second is the ordinary word for Lord, Ruler, Master, and is not the Name of God, Yahweh.
Psallm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Now Psalm 110:1 is one of the most quoted and expounded verse in the NT and the following is an example, and please note that the KJV translators even carried over the distinction between LORD and Lord:
Acts 2:34-36 (KJV): 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Thus the title “Lord” here is not teaching that Jesus is Yahweh, but that God has exalted Jesus to be Lord, Ruler, Master. Your question is to some extent invalid as it ignores the fact that the Yahweh Name is incorporated in the Name Jesus and this needs to be understood to establish the true relationship of God the Father with His Son the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God. Yahweh, God the Father is revealed in and through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

You failed, again. You have not answered the question I asked:

In what Bible verse(s) is it stated that Jesus Christ is NOT YHWH? Please cite.

YOU deny that Jesus is YHWH, so, what Bible verse denies that Jesus is YHWH?

Why can't you answer the question?

 

[7djengo7]

Scripture NOWHERE states that Noah is not Moses.
Your claim is that Noah is Moses because Scripture does not state that Noah is not Moses.

Here, you have just admitted that you agree with me that Scripture NOWHERE states that Jesus is NOT YHWH. You believe that Jesus is NOT YHWH, but it is NOT Scripture that has taught you that Jesus is NOT YHWH. So, who taught you that Jesus is NOT YHWH?

Only an abject idiot would claim--what you just claimed--that "Scripture NOWHERE states that Noah is not Moses".

Of COURSE Scripture states that Noah is not Moses:

Genesis 9:29

And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

Deuteronomy 34:7

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died...

I believe that Noah is not Moses BECAUSE the Bible tells me that Noah is not Moses.
Do YOU believe that Noah is not Moses? If so, WHY do you believe so (since you've just claimed that the Bible doesn't tell us so)?

 

[7djengo7]

Have you ever believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

Since by the phrase, "the Son of God", you mean "a man created by God", NO Christian has EVER BELIEVED what you assert, when you say "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God". Every Christian believes that Jesus is the Christ; NO Christian has EVER BELIEVED that Jesus is a man created by God. And, mistake not: YOU are not a Christian; YOU are an anti-Christian, a Christ-hater.

 

[Bright Raven]

Says no verse ever.

1 John 1:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
What Was Heard, Seen, and Touched
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes but He is NOT YHVH...There is Yahweh Who begot a Son...Before He begot a Son He alone was not even a Father...

and the Son was reborn as Yahushua...and is still the Son not the Father...but yes is a God...

But so would the donkey have been and lived forever and spoke and counseled and made followers but the Spirit of the ONLY TRUE GOD was removed and returned...and so the donkey didnt talk any more and died a donkey...

But had that Spirit remained in that donkey well we would have yet another God...

Just like man had become like ONE OF US...and so they kicked man out lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever as yet another god knowing good and evil...is why we are called gods...but cant live forever...but soon...

So yes Yahushua is God but not YHVH the Father...even He forsake His Son so that He died...

But it didnt end there and it don’t end there...soon, I pray, we will live forever too...dependent on the tree of life...

Who is eternal, has no beginning or no end. God and God alone.

 

[way 2 go]

1) It doesn't work like that.
When you make claims like you did, it is YOUR responsibility to show Scripture for your theory.

still waiting for you to prove your position

2) You have been shown how you are wrong repeatedly.

You have been shown how you are wrong repeatedly

you didn't refute any of this.


Jesus says follow me or you are not worthy of me , only true if Jesus is God.

Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.


if Jesus is not God then Jesus saying "follow me" "serve me is not honoring God.

Jesus says "follow me" "serve me" because Jesus is God .

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Joh 21:19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, "Follow me."
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

Mat_4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
Deu 10:20 You shall fear the LORD your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear.



---

only God is lord of the sabbath and Jesus is Lord of the sabbath because Jesus is God.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:
Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:



--

Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me,

Moses said "Jehovah said unto me" ,Moses spoke as a man for God
Jesus never said "Jehovah said unto me"

Jesus spoke as God for God
Joh_14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.


--

Jesus here is saying " his commandment"
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

Jesus here is saying " my commandments "
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

both verses can only be true if Jesus is God




know the truth, and the truth will set you free

 

[Dartman]

1 John 1:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
What Was Heard, Seen, and Touched
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Yes, God's words were heard, the fulfillment of God's words was seen and touched.

As I stated, there is NO verse, ever, that calls Jesus "the eternal son".

 

[Dartman]

still waiting for you to prove your position

Jesus says follow me or you are not worthy of me , only true if Jesus is God.

Sorry, there is ZERO requirement for Jesus to be God in order for this statement to be true.
You are making a claim that is NOT in Scripture

Following Jesus means worshiping his God.... like Jesus did.
Following Jesus means obeying the commandments his God gave him, and his God commanded Jesus to teach those commandments.
Following Jesus means understanding that Jesus was SENT by God, NOT that Jesus IS God.
Mark 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.


Luke 4:18-21 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

only God is lord of the sabbath and Jesus is Lord of the sabbath because Jesus is God.

Like I told you in post #1445;

Because Jehovah gave Jesus all authority, and all power .... so after Christ's God had anointed Jesus with power, and authority ... Jesus WAS the "lord of the Sabbath". God MADE Jesus "Lord"
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath madethat same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me,

Moses said "Jehovah said unto me" ,Moses spoke as a man for God
Jesus never said "Jehovah said unto me"

Jesus spoke as God for God
Joh_14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

You skipped a couple of VERY key verses;

Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Acts 3:22-26 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
-

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 7djengo,

Sorry, man. You fail. You did not answer the question I asked. Here, again, is the question that I asked: I did NOT ask: Why can't you answer the question that I DID ask? You failed, again. You have not answered the question I asked: YOU deny that Jesus is YHWH, so, what Bible verse denies that Jesus is YHWH? Why can't you answer the question?

I have quoted Matthew 11:25-27, and also Psalm 110:1 and its application and exposition in Acts 2:34-36. Both of these clearly show that God the Father is Yahweh, and that He is also the Lord of heaven and earth. These also show that Jesus has been exalted to become Lord.

You seem to ignore or fail to the teaching of these quotations and then demand an answer to your questions that contradict these Scriptures. So if you want to play your game, then continue.

Also please note that in Matthew 11:25-27 Jesus is quoting and summarising Psalm 8 where Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator and Lord of heaven and earth. Psalm 8 then speaks of how Yahweh, God the Father would then made Jesus lower than the angels and then exalted him and placed the earth under his care to become the new Lord of the earth. Thus Psalm 8:4-6 also distinguishes between Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Also the Yahweh Name is incorporated in Jesus’ Name and this could represent Yah’s Salvation. This also teaches that Jesus is not Yahweh, but the means through whom Yahweh is the Saviour.

Kind regards
Trevor