All scripture supports my view. I am not under any compulsion to doubt what God has declared.
Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God
- Thread starter Dartman
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Nope!
John 1:1-3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
A created being has a beginning. Jesus has no beginning as attested by Scripture.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
The Greek word translated birth is gennessis, beginning
And where was He before His birth?
1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Introduction, The Incarnate Word
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
Yah alone is immortal and in the beginning begot spiritually a Son Who was then reborn into the flesh and then named YAHushua having come in His Father’s name...but He was or present tense “I am” before that even...
Now those of us born in the flesh of one NOT begotten but created from dust can be reborn spiritually into eternity but not immortal...like our brother the begotten Son we have beginnings
7djengo7
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I "got" you?? What (if anything) do you mean?
Also, how many things do you call "divine beings"?
7djengo7
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How many SENSES would you say there are of a created being? Please list them.
Since the Bible doesn't say (what YOU say) that "Jesus is the 2nd Adam", would you mind trying to explain what (if anything) you think you mean by that?
musterion
Well-known member
This is the point they really begin ignoring and denying the Bible, because they have to. They have to once they box themselves into "He is ENTIRELY a created being."
This is a popular theory, but doesn't agree with Scripture.
Scripture states;
Luke 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age
..... and usually about now begins the "inject words into the text to alter the meaning" process.
1 Cor 15:11 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
musterion
Well-known member
If Christ was entirely a created being, then the doctrine of the incarnation goes on the junkpile because there was nothing pre-birth to incarnate [take on flesh] as a man. He was created at conception as entirely a new form of sinless man, later indwelt by God's Spirit (which is why some here on TOL say He only BECAME the Christ only when the Spirit landed upon Him).
But what that must mean is that Christ had to be some unique one-only form of creation -- not a man nor an angel, but something else the Bible DOES NOT DEFINE.
What that means is, to deny the Trinity doctrine automatically puts your beliefs outside of what the Bible says and leaves you reliant on human speculations which cannot be supported by the word of God. In short...other people's opinions.
They define both God and Christ by human traditions.
Trinitarianism does its best to balance out everything the Bible says about the nature of Christ, and of God. Does it do it imperfectly? Probably, because we are imperfect. But at least it tries.
Antitrinitarianism (unitarianism, etc) has to ignore or rewrite entire chunks of the Bible to survive, as we've seen done on this very thread.
But what that must mean is that Christ had to be some unique one-only form of creation -- not a man nor an angel, but something else the Bible DOES NOT DEFINE.
What that means is, to deny the Trinity doctrine automatically puts your beliefs outside of what the Bible says and leaves you reliant on human speculations which cannot be supported by the word of God. In short...other people's opinions.
They define both God and Christ by human traditions.
Trinitarianism does its best to balance out everything the Bible says about the nature of Christ, and of God. Does it do it imperfectly? Probably, because we are imperfect. But at least it tries.
Antitrinitarianism (unitarianism, etc) has to ignore or rewrite entire chunks of the Bible to survive, as we've seen done on this very thread.
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musterion
Well-known member
Also, I suppose there are some anti-trinitarians like the Mormons and JWs who say that Christ did exist in some form prior to His birth...they say he was an angel or an exalted man. Either way, you see how you're left to speculate on a very important point with no Bible support, and in so doing you still end up denying half of what the Bible DOES say about Who Christ is.
Right Divider
Body part
Anyone that thinks that God is going to turn over ALL JUDGEMENT to one of His created beings has a few screws loose.
Joh 5:22-23 KJV For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Joh 5:22-23 KJV For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
7djengo7
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Indeed, that's just one of the many, many, many Scripture verses that do not say (what YOU say) that "Jesus is the 2nd Adam". Thank you for sharing it, but I already knew that it doesn't say what you say.
genuineoriginal
New member
You seem to be reading some strange translation I have never heard of.
The KJV unmistakably shows that Jesus was very careful to make sure that everyone knew He was not declaring Himself to be God, but was declaring Himself to be the Son of God.
John 10:34-36 34 Jesus answered them, [JESUS]Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?[/JESUS] 35 [JESUS]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;[/JESUS] 36 [JESUS]Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/JESUS] |
genuineoriginal
New member
When you receive ETERNAL life, will there be a beginning to your ETERNAL life, or have you always had ETERNAL life without beginning?
genuineoriginal
New member
To believe in the Trinity doctrine automatically puts your beliefs outside of what the Bible says and leaves you reliant on human speculations which cannot be supported by the word of God. In short...other people's opinions.
musterion
Well-known member
Wow, you are lost.
genuineoriginal
New member
You believe that the author of the Gospel of John has a few screws loose?
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