Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[Apple7]

Context to the rescue yet again!

Context to the rescue yet again!

There are a number of items in the answer of Jesus, and I will underline each of these, and then underline his statement that he is the Son of God, and hence not God as they assessed and accused him of blasphemy.
John 10:30-36 (KJV): 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
We could consider each of the above in detail, but have you considered why the Judges were called “gods” or “Elohim” in Psalm 82:6 and Exodus 21:6? What is the relevance of this in the answer of Jesus?

Kind regards
Trevor

And yet...just a chapter prior, John 9.35 - 38, Jesus declares that He is The Son, and He is immediately worshiped as God!

 

[Dartman]

Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

yes Jesus used the same name I AM

"I am" is never a name.

Exo 3:14 And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

 

[Dartman]

And yet...just a chapter prior, John 9.35 - 38, Jesus declares that He is The Son, and He is immediately worshiped as God!

John 9:35-3835 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

 

[Apple7]

"I am" is never a name.

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Why is 'I AM' repeated three times in that verse...?

 

[Dartman]

Rom 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

1 Cor 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

neither verse states your premise "each believer has glory before the world existed "

Really? So which believers are left out??

Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world ....

Yes, and so did everyone God foreknew, and predestinated.

... and Jesus is saying glorify me again with that glory He had previously .

NO WHERE in the text is the word "again".
That's your insertion.
And, the REASON you chose to insert "again" in the text is, you can see that the verse does NOT clearly state your theory, so you make stuff up.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[Apple7]

John 9:35-3835 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Sweet...

 

[Dartman]

And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Why is 'I AM' repeated three times in that verse...?

A poor translation..... that's what it is!

Here is a better one;

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

 

[Dartman]

Sweet...

Your insertion of " .... as God" is contradicted by the text.
And, the REASON you chose to insert "...as God" into the text is, you can see that the verse does NOT clearly state your theory, so you make stuff up.

 

[Apple7]

A poor translation..... that's what it is!

Here is a better one;

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

The original Hebrew is a 'poor translation'?


:cigar:

 

[Apple7]

Your insertion of " .... as God" is contradicted by the text.
And, the REASON you chose to insert "...as God" into the text is, you can see that the verse does NOT clearly state your theory, so you make stuff up.

Your very own quote makes the claim.

Deal with it...

 

[Apple7]

Dartman has taken one too many darts to the head...

 

[Dartman]

The original Hebrew is a 'poor translation'?

WHERE do you quote original Hebrew?? You quoted an ENGLISH translation of a MUCH more recent Hebrew source than the LXX uses.

The GREEK in the LXX utterly demolishes your spin on the text. It is "ego eimi 'O On"
NOT "ego eimi ego eimi" as your theory would pretend.

"ego eimi" is NEVER a name, or a title.

 

[Dartman]

Your very own quote makes the claim.

Of course not.
Your claim is dishonest.

 

[way 2 go]

"I am" is never a name.

here "I AM" is used as a name

question:
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?"

answer:
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye
say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. LXX

:kookoo:
No,
that is not in the bible and that is what we are using here , no cult bibles like nwt.
your additions are only in your made up bible.

 

[SabathMoon]

here "I AM" is used as a name

question:
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?"

answer:
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"


:kookoo:
No,
that is not in the bible and that is what we are using here , no cult bibles like nwt.
your additions are only in your made up bible.

Fail! Not only didn't you prove your point, you tried to use Origen's cultic LXX to do it.

 

[way 2 go]

Really? So which believers are left out??
Yes, and so did everyone God foreknew, and predestinated.

neither verse states or implies your premise "each believer has glory before the world existed "

therefore conjecture on your part

NO WHERE in the text is the word "again".
That's your insertion.

I did not insert it into the text but it was in my description of the text

And, the REASON you chose to insert "again" in the text is, you can see that the verse does NOT clearly state your theory, so you make stuff up.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world
and Jesus is saying glorify me with that glory He had previously .

 

[Apple7]

WHERE do you quote original Hebrew?? You quoted an ENGLISH translation of a MUCH more recent Hebrew source than the LXX uses.

The GREEK in the LXX utterly demolishes your spin on the text. It is "ego eimi 'O On"
NOT "ego eimi ego eimi" as your theory would pretend.

The Hebrew of Exo 3.14 has Yahweh saying ‘I AM’ (ehyeh) three separate times.

The Greek translators did NOT translate the second and third ‘ehyeh’ with the same words used to translate the first ‘I AM’.

‘Egw eimi’ translates the first ‘I AM’ (ehyeh), in the LXX, while ‘ho wn’ is used to translate the second and third instances of ‘I AM’, in the LXX.

So, as you can easily verify, THREE separate 'I AM' statements are made in BOTH Hebrew and the LXX.

But, you can't be bothered with the study of the original languages...

 

[Apple7]

Google harder!

Google harder!

"ego eimi" is NEVER a name, or a title.

Wrong again.

The Jews of the first few centuries AD used 'ho wn' (the second/third LXX translated 'I AM' statements from the Hebrew) as a name for God, as evidenced in the writing of Philo, as he comments on Exo 25.

Go throw some more darts and see if one magically sticks...

:cigar:

 

[SabathMoon]

Wrong again.

The Jews of the first few centuries AD used 'ho wn' (the second/third LXX translated 'I AM' statement from the Hebrew) as a name for God, as evidenced in the writing of Philo, as he comments on Exo 25.

Go throw some more darts and see if one magically sticks...

:cigar:

Howabout we believe that he is? Since those "I-am-he"s are so important to you.

 

[Apple7]

Howabout we believe that he is? Since those "I-am-he"s are so important to you.

Simple enough.

The NT writers applied the LXX style, as translated from Exo 3.14, and applied it to Jesus - thus confirming His deity.