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Is there any obvious evidence today for the biblical global Flood?

Nick M

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This is the post flood history, which matches secular history. They have no recorded history, written or oral, before it. I had to check before posting to make sure nobody is claiming to discover something.


Nick M said:
Is there recorded history before cradle of civilization in Iraq?

Chat GPT said:
Short answer: there’s no written history before the Mesopotamian “Cradle of Civilization,” but there is a very long prehistory.


I asked about history that isn't written, and the server misunderstood.

Nick M said:
No, what is the oral history before the writing of the cradle of civilization, as it is often called. I ask since it is claimed to predate documented history. Is there anything other than flood legends that are actually recorded?

ChatGPT said:
Short, direct answer No — there is no independently recorded oral history from before the advent of writing in Mesopotamia.

 

Nick M

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LIFETIME MEMBER
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But when you drag the story out of Genesis and set it next to reality—next to the fossil record, archaeological layers, and historical timelines—it doesn’t add up as literal, global history.
This is one of the dumber sentences I have read here. Like Tampon Tim wrote that reply.


Anyway, this is the fossil record and archaeological record. In part.

 

Clete

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@Clete


See pages 580-583, 589-590, 595-596.

Does this help at all?
Well, I'm not mathematician so I plugged a few of those pages into Chat GPT and had it analyze both the math and the argument. Here's what it said...

"The problem is not simple arithmetic. The problem is the model’s assumptions.​
The argument assumes that long-term comet orbital perturbations behave like independent, normally distributed random variables over thousands of years. That assumption is doing nearly all of the heavy lifting. Real comet dynamics are affected by chaotic gravitational interactions, resonance effects, outgassing, and cumulative perturbations that are not obviously well modeled by a clean Gaussian error distribution.​
So the calculations may show that, under those assumptions, Halley and Swift-Tuttle converge unusually near 3290 B.C. What they do not establish is that the hydroplate theory is therefore true, or that the Flood has now been scientifically demonstrated.​
In other words, this is a mathematically serious argument, but the strength of the conclusion exceeds the strength of the model."​

I never doubted that any math the author presented in this book would be valid. He's smarter than to have presented faulty math.
To answer your question, yes, it helps. It still feels very much like looking for the Flood behind every bush, but it isn't as implausible as I was originally thinking.
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
In response to pages 589-590, GPT's response mirrors some of my previous arguments...

This section is trying to argue that the escaping “supercritical water” jets in the Hydroplate Theory would naturally behave like rocket exhaust and become extremely cold as they expanded into near-vacuum conditions above the atmosphere.​
The key equation they use is a real compressible-flow relation:​
T0T=1+k−12M2\frac{T_0}{T}=1+\frac{k-1}{2}M^2TT0=1+2k−1M2​
That equation itself is legitimate. It relates stagnation temperature T0T_0T0, flow temperature TTT, Mach number MMM, and the heat-capacity ratio kkk.​
They then plug in:​
  • T0≈1300∘FT_0 \approx 1300^\circ FT0≈1300∘F
  • M=32/0.2=160M = 32/0.2 = 160M=32/0.2=160
and derive a downstream temperature near:​
  • −459∘F-459^\circ F−459∘F, essentially absolute zero.
Here’s the problem:​
The equation is being pushed far outside the physical regime where it behaves realistically.​
A Mach 160 water-vapor flow erupting through Earth’s crust is not remotely comparable to the idealized steady-flow nozzle conditions assumed by the equation. At those energies:​
  • ionization,
  • plasma effects,
  • radiative heating,
  • shock interactions,
  • turbulence,
  • phase transitions,
  • molecular dissociation,
  • and non-equilibrium thermodynamics
all become dominant.​
In other words, the equation itself is real, but the application is deeply questionable.​
The biggest issue is this:​
they are treating the eruption almost like an ideal rocket nozzle in a controlled flow regime, when the actual scenario would be violently chaotic and thermodynamically extreme.​
Also, temperatures approaching absolute zero from such an eruption should immediately trigger skepticism. Whenever a simplified equation produces physically absurd edge-case results, that is usually a sign the model assumptions have broken down.​
So again, this is not fake math. The formulas are real. The issue is whether the formulas can legitimately be applied to the proposed physical situation. Here, the answer is probably no. - Chat GPT​
Basically, water vapor moving through the atmosphere at 160 times the speed of sounds, wouldn't be steam any longer. It wouldn't even be hydrogen and oxygen any more. It would be ionized versions of those things and the formulas used would no longer apply.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Finally, in response to pages 595-596, GPT gave the following response, which, once again, it's too dissimilar to the arguments I made before...

This section is considerably more mathematically careful than most people would expect, but the core issue is still the same:​
A mathematically consistent model is not the same thing as a physically justified model.
What Brown is arguing here is essentially this:​
  1. Before the Flood, the Moon had a perfectly circular orbit.
  2. Earth had a 360-day year.
  3. Therefore the synodic lunar month was exactly 30 days.
Then he attempts to explain today’s:​
  • 365.2422-day year,
  • 29.53-day lunar month,
  • and present lunar orbit
as consequences of debris ejected from Earth impacting the Moon.​
Now, the orbital mechanics equations themselves are real. He is using:​
  • conservation of momentum,
  • specific orbital energy,
  • hyperbolic trajectory equations,
  • angular momentum relations,
  • vis-viva type equations,
  • and standard conic-section orbital formulas.
That is genuine celestial mechanics.​
The calculations are not random nonsense.​
However, there are several enormous physical problems.​
The biggest one is energy.​
He is proposing that:​
  • 3% of Earth’s mass was launched into space,
  • some fraction struck the Moon,
  • and this altered the Moon’s orbit from a perfectly circular 30-day system to the present one.
The amount of energy required for this is almost incomprehensible. We are talking about energies rivaling or exceeding major planetary formation-scale events.​
At that level:​
  • Earth’s crust would not remain remotely intact,
  • oceans would vaporize globally,
  • the atmosphere would become plasma-like,
  • and the thermal consequences would be catastrophic far beyond what the model discusses.
Another major issue:
he assumes the Moon originally had a perfectly circular orbit with eccentricity exactly zero.​
Real orbital systems almost never remain perfectly circular because gravitational systems naturally develop perturbations over time. That assumption appears chosen largely because it simplifies the math and conveniently yields exactly 30 days.​
Also, the argument subtly reverses explanation order.​
He begins with:​
  • biblical references to 150 days over 5 months,
  • ancient calendars using 30-day months,
  • and cultural references,
then builds a physical model that reproduces that conclusion.​
That is not necessarily illegitimate, but it means the model is partly constrained by the target outcome from the start.​
One thing I will say in fairness:
Brown is clearly intelligent and technically literate. He is not merely handwaving. He is attempting to build a fully connected physical system where:​
  • comets,
  • lunar orbit changes,
  • meteorites,
  • asteroid origins,
  • and flood chronology
all emerge from one unified event.​
That gives the theory explanatory ambition and internal coherence.​
The problem is that internal coherence alone does not establish physical plausibility.​
A system can be mathematically self-consistent while still being physically unrealistic. That is where most mainstream physicists and astronomers would strongly object to this model.​
 
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