Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[marke]

Not relevant and unresponsive.

No one is suggesting that anyone should be forced to take the vaccine. Not one single person on this thread has said anything of the sort.

I oppose the stupid, immoral, unconstitutional democrat edict to get vaccinated or else the police will come visiting you at your house.

Arizona Lawmaker Advises People to Put up ‘No Trespassing’ Signs to Deter Door-to-Door Vaccine Checks

www.theepochtimes.com

At age 61, Daniel J. Miller of Parks, Arizona, says there’s no way he’s ever going to take the COVID-19 shot—even if the government comes knocking at his door.
It isn’t just a matter of his religious beliefs and faith in his own natural immune system that emboldens him, it’s a matter of personal choice and medical privacy, Miller says.
So when the Biden administration announced earlier this week that it’s considering sending people door to door to persuade the unvaccinated, Miller’s reaction was, “He’s got to be out of his mind.”
“[President Joe Biden] is way out of bounds,” Miller said. “There’s no reason for him to say take the shot just because he thinks you should. It’s your body, not his.”

 

[Clete]

I oppose the stupid, immoral, unconstitutional democrat edict to get vaccinated or else the police will come visiting you at your house.

Yeah, so does almost everyone else.

 

[Yorzhik]

We are talking past one another and I no longer care about COVID enough to debate it any longer.

As for the above quote, I wasn't suggesting that other countries were still on lock down because lock downs work but because they don't have the vaccine.

You are saying unvaccinated countries are locked down because they are still dying at much higher rates than vaccinated ones. But the reason you use the proxy of lockdowns is because you don't have the numbers. Why can't we get the numbers? Because the numbers will show the pandemic was over long ago.

In other words, the vaccine obviously works. All you have to do is look at the numbers in the US which are down over 90%.

Now you are just repeating your assertion. Something you judge other people for.

The vaccine is the only thing that was ever going to work and it works beautifully and all one has to do is spend maybe 30 seconds to find the numbers to prove it.

If either of us had the numbers we'd provide them. They don't show them so rabidly that it should make you curious.

Those who don't believe it, don't want to believe it and won't ever believe it no matter what.

Calm down. Your rhetoric here makes you look angry and anti-science.

Those countries that don't have the vaccine are still scared out of their rational minds over COVID and so they have to do something and the natural tendency of the left is command and control, therefore, lock downs are still in place in spite of an entire globe's worth of absolute proof that they did exactly nothing at all to help prevent the spread of the disease.

And now that we have proof that treatment was available that would have made COVID nothing more than a regular bad flu season with no excess deaths. I have the numbers that prove it. So why push the vaccine so insanely? I think you should recalibrate your what-are-their-intentions radar. And when you do, you'll understand the success of Islam because it says resist with you hand, and if you can't do that resist worth your mouth, and if you can't do that resist in your mind.

 

[Clete]

You are saying unvaccinated countries are locked down because they are still dying at much higher rates than vaccinated ones. But the reason you use the proxy of lockdowns is because you don't have the numbers. Why can't we get the numbers? Because the numbers will show the pandemic was over long ago.

Nope! I will not be baited into doing the work for anyone ever again. The numbers are available for you to find in about fifteen seconds of searching online. Don't bother doing it though. No one's numbers will convince you of a single thing anyway so just go on believing whatever the hell you want.

Now you are just repeating your assertion. Something you judge other people for.

I've made my arguments over and over again. I just got through explicitly stating that i'm interested in debating it any longer. So you can stick your accusation of hypocricy up your ass.

If either of us had the numbers we'd provide them. They don't show them so rabidly that it should make you curious.

Liar.

Calm down. Your rhetoric here makes you look angry and anti-science.

Don't call me a hyproctrite and then tell me to calm down in the next breath your double minded fool.

And now that we have proof that treatment was available that would have made COVID nothing more than a regular bad flu season with no excess deaths. I have the numbers that prove it. So why push the vaccine so insanely?

I'm not pushing the vaccine at all. Please do try to read my posts before making unfounded accusations.

I think you should recalibrate your what-are-their-intentions radar.

I'm now well past caring what you think.

And when you do, you'll understand the success of Islam because it says resist with you hand, and if you can't do that resist worth your mouth, and if you can't do that resist in your mind.

So you admit to believing that the vaccine is some sort of evil conspiracy.

Congratulations! You've proven yourself a fool and won yourself an enemy.

DO NOT respond to this post. I WILL NOT READ IT!

 

[ok doser]

 

[way 2 go]

I oppose the stupid, immoral, unconstitutional democrat edict to get vaccinated or else the police will come visiting you at your house.

now they want to filter your text messages

 

[Derf]

This will help:
Politico reported:

Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages. The goal is to ensure that people who may have difficulty getting a vaccination because of issues like transportation see those barriers lessened or removed entirely.

Now @Arthur Brain, @annabenedetti and @User Name are going to have a lot more work to do than just here on TOL. They have to monitor our text messages as well!

 

[Arthur Brain]

This will help:
Politico reported:



Now @Arthur Brain, @annabenedetti and @User Name are going to have a lot more work to do than just here on TOL. They have to monitor our text messages as well!

Well, that was...bizarre...

 

[Derf]

Well, that was...bizarre...

I know! Who would have thought that Biden would try to troll our text messages! But congratulations on the new responsibilities!

 

[ok doser]

This will help:
Politico reported:



Now @Arthur Brain, @annabenedetti and @User Name are going to have a lot more work to do than just here on TOL. They have to monitor our text messages as well!

annabananahead seems to have temporarily disappeared.
As has eidurrrrr

 

[Arthur Brain]

I know! Who would have thought that Biden would try to troll our text messages! But congratulations on the new responsibilities!

A shame they don't come with any more pay really...else, meh.

 

[Yorzhik]

It's too bad you aren't going to discuss this. You should know me by now well enough that I always provide sources. And you've even seen me change my mind based on data even if it hurts my argument. Maybe you thought I was Marke? Now that's a curiosity to me that you replied to him repeatedly when he usually would need only a couple replies to get to the bottom of his points.

Nope! I will not be baited into doing the work for anyone ever again. The numbers are available for you to find in about fifteen seconds of searching online.

The numbers I asked for weren't for the efficacy of the vaccine. The short term numbers are great for them. What I can't find is an apples to apples comparison of western societies where the vaccine was used and it wasn't. There is no 15 second search that answers that. Those are the numbers we need. It's the only numbers I've asked for and I sought for them myself of course.

Don't bother doing it though. No one's numbers will convince you of a single thing anyway so just go on believing whatever the hell you want.

You should know me better than that.

I've made my arguments over and over again. I just got through explicitly stating that i'm interested in debating it any longer. So you can stick your accusation of hypocricy up your ass.

I read one post where you replied to Marke and then the relies to me. I don't have time to read every post and I'm sure Marke did not ask for the numbers I did.

Liar.

I'm not lying. The specific numbers I asked for probably won't show up for months just like the treatment, mask, and lockdown numbers - when it was too late.

Don't call me a hyproctrite and then tell me to calm down in the next breath your double minded fool.

I didn't call you a hypocrite, but I did point out a possible hypocrisy. If it were me I would have defended my post or admitted my lapse.

I'm not pushing the vaccine at all. Please do try to read my posts before making unfounded accusations.

Saying the vaccine is the only way out of the pandemic is at least inferring that we need it.

I'm now well past caring what you think.

That's too bad. I'm bringing up good points. And since we've been in the trenches together for years you might consider that iron sharpens iron instead of malice on my part.

So you admit to believing that the vaccine is some sort of evil conspiracy.

First, the conspiracy nuts turned out to be right about treatments, masks, and lockdowns so be careful about that accusation. Second, we can't have long term data about the vaccines because it can't exist for some time.

Congratulations! You've proven yourself a fool and won yourself an enemy.

That's too bad. We are more brothers than strangers and throwing away allies in times like these will do more harm than good in the long run.

DO NOT respond to this post. I WILL NOT READ IT!

Again,that's too bad. In closing let me say that if treatments we now know work had not been suppressed the numbers would show zero excess deaths, even without the vaccines. Thevaccines were/are not the only way out of the pandemic.

 

[expos4ever]

Just because some people doubt the health issues which have sprung up in vaccinated individuals shortly after vaccination are not related to the vaccine is an improper argument for abandoning caution about the safety of the vaccine.

You evaded my point (of course you did - you have to).

The relevant question, of course, is this: is there an increase in strokes (for example) after the vaccine as compared to the normal rate of incidence of strokes (i.e. in the absence of the vaccine).

Besides, your post is a strawman - nothing in what I posted would cause a reasonable person to conclude that I am opposed to exercising caution relative to the vaccine.

 

[expos4ever]

He's committing the logical fallacy of poisoning the well

Nice try. Boy, you must really believe posters here are dumb. Oooops, wait a minute......

All I am doing is providing examples that, rightly, cast the credibility of the VAERS source into question. Would a reliable, database of medical events that is properly managed, presumably by medical professionals, include this......?

"explosive diarrhea and a touch of the AIDS"

Do you think any doctor would add "explosive diarrhea and a touch of the AIDS" to a patient's chart?

I do not a vaccine to get explosive diarrhea - enchilada night at Mexicali Rosa's will do the trick.

There are, of course, entries in VAERS that document a true cause and effect relationship between the vaccine and certain side effects. But it also, no doubt, contains plenty of other reports of adverse events that have nothing to do with the vaccine.

And, of course, the rocket scientists in this forum appear to be incapable to draw such a distinction. Or worse, they are deliberately misrepresenting the value of VAERS in evaluating the safety of the vaccines.

 

[marke]

You evaded my point (of course you did - you have to).

The relevant question, of course, is this: is there an increase in strokes (for example) after the vaccine as compared to the normal rate of incidence of strokes (i.e. in the absence of the vaccine).

Besides, your post is a strawman - nothing in what I posted would cause a reasonable person to conclude that I am opposed to exercising caution relative to the vaccine.

In 2020 there was a decline in reported deaths from the flu, from heart attacks, from strokes, from gunshot wounds, and from other causes corresponding to the increase in reported deaths by covid and comorbidities. In other words, hospitals reported any death as covid if they could because there was government money to be mined from each covid death reported.

 

[marke]

Nice try. Boy, you must really believe posters here are dumb. Oooops, wait a minute......

All I am doing is providing examples that, rightly, cast the credibility of the VAERS source into question. Would a reliable, database of medical events that is properly managed, presumably by medical professionals, include this......?

"explosive diarrhea and a touch of the AIDS"

Do you think any doctor would add "explosive diarrhea and a touch of the AIDS" to a patient's chart?

I do not a vaccine to get explosive diarrhea - enchilada night at Mexicali Rosa's will do the trick.

There are, of course, entries in VAERS that document a true cause and effect relationship between the vaccine and certain side effects. But it also, no doubt, contains plenty of other reports of adverse events that have nothing to do with the vaccine.

And, of course, the rocket scientists in this forum appear to be incapable to draw such a distinction. Or worse, they are deliberately misrepresenting the value of VAERS in evaluating the safety of the vaccines.

Rocket scientists who think all covid deaths reported were from covid are living in a world of delusion. Rocket scientists who do not believe the US government has lied to the American people about covid for political, not medical, reasons are also living in a world of delusion.

 

[expos4ever]

In 2020 there was a decline in reported deaths from the flu, from heart attacks, from strokes, from gunshot wounds, and from other causes corresponding to the increase in reported deaths by covid and comorbidities.

Ok, let's take this one part at a time.

First, a dramatic reduction in flu is to be expected given the restrictions we had to live under due to covid. Likewise, with more people at home one could expect fewer gunshot injuries. As for heart attacks, where is your data?

 

[expos4ever]

In other words, hospitals reported any death as covid if they could because there was government money to be mined from each covid death reported.

Where is your evidence that "was government money to be mined from each covid death reported¨?

Now then, let's talk about this "every death reported as a covid death" thing as it is one of the many untruths you guys perpetrate. Although in this case in particular, you can arguably be acquitted of deliberate misrepresentation as the the reasoning involved is admittedly subtle.

Apparently, at one point at least, all deaths occurring within 28 days of a positive covid test were counted as covid deaths. True, this looks suspicious.

But, of course, it is not.

To count all deaths of people within 28 days of receiving a positive tests - even if they are hit by a bus - as a covid death does not necessarily result in over-counting if there are reasons to expect that these over-counts will be be offset by under-counts. For example: people who factually die from covid after 28 days are not counted as covid deaths. And people who factually die from covid but are never tested are not counted either.

 

[marke]

Ok, let's take this one part at a time.

First, a dramatic reduction in flu is to be expected given the restrictions we had to live under due to covid. Likewise, with more people at home one could expect fewer gunshot injuries. As for heart attacks, where is your data?

Assumptions drawn from the data are not scientific conclusions. If a person had covid and died from a heart attack, did covid kill him or did the heart attack kill him? I think I read that fewer than 6% of reported covid deaths were from covid alone and not from other causes as well.

 

[marke]

Misleading, of course.

To any out there who actually think, the absolute number of breakthrough infections is not relevant. What is relevant is the percentage of vaccinated people who get infected.

From Harvard, an institution whose doors have no doubt been darkened by any here:

More than 10,000 of these so-called breakthrough cases of COVID-19 have been reported in the US. Seems like a large number, right? But keep in mind that nearly 133 million people have been vaccinated, so these breakthrough cases represent less than one in 10,000.

What are breakthrough coronavirus cases? Cases where people who have been vaccinated against covid still contract covid. Not an encouraging fact for dogmatists who want the US government to force every American man. woman and child to get the risky and not totally effective vaccine.

Coronavirus News and Updates

Here's what to know about COVID-19, including the disease's symptoms, transmission, severity, treatments, and when to seek emergency care.

www.health.com

Former E! News reporter Catt Sadler is warning people about the risk of a breakthrough COVID-19 infection after she contracted the virus, despite being vaccinated.
"This is important. READ ME," Sadler, 46, wrote on Instagram next to a photo of herself in bed. "I'm fully vaccinated and I have Covid."