VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
That's an interesting question.
Is The Physical Realm Analogous To A Simulated Reality?
- Thread starter VladtheDestroyer
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That's an interesting question.
VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
Maybe they like to hang out there.
VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
BTW this word might also be a bit gay.
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ttruscott
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In the Bible, when God "opened his eyes," it typically refers to a moment of divine revelation. Most famously, in the Book of Numbers, God opened the eyes of the prophet Balaam, allowing him to see the angel of the Lord blocking his path with a drawn sword. Seems to imply that the angel was really really there but invisible to Balaam, yes?
And:
2 Kings 6:17, where the prophet Elisha prays for his terrified servant. The servant was overwhelmed by an enemy army, but God answered Elisha's prayer and opened his eyes to see the unseen spiritual realm—a mountain full of horses and chariots of fire. Was the fire real flames or just bright lights?
Derf
Well-known member
Seems like "under the altar" would have significance.
The phrase is used in the sacrificial system thusly:
And the sons of Aaron brought the blood unto him: and he dipped his finger in the blood, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar, and poured out the blood at the bottom of the altar: [Lev 9:9 KJV]
And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh. [Deu 12:27 KJV]
And here are two verses referring to Christ being poured out, as a sacrifice for us:
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. [Psa 22:14 KJV]
Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. [Isa 53:12 KJV]
So it would appear that the souls "under the alter" were "poured out" like Christ was, suffering like He did, as Christ expected of His disciples:
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. [Jhn 15:20 KJV]
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VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
After thinking about this a bit, I guess I see it the same way. I would add that it seems to me that they would need permission from God first, or obey some kind of rules. For example, I don't think it would be permissible for an angel to, say, pretend to be my mother or something like that and imitate her physical body.
The simulation must follow certain rules so that God is portrayed accurately as He interacts with us in it. So that we can know Him. I think this is why God is using dividing language in Genesis 1. God make a covenant, and then provides a specific pathway or an architecture where we can dwell together with Him (ie. a gardenlike temple on top of His Holy mountain.) There IS that sort of pattern in the Bible, although it's a bit rough...
It might explain why that when God does a miracle, He often times does not just DO a miracle. He seems to do them tentatively. Oftentimes telling people "Do this and this FIRST and then I will do a miracle." Now there could be more then 1 reason for that.. but I don't believe that God does this to teach us, "If you obey me, I will do miracles for you." or anything like that. Rather, I think there is some sort of, perhaps delicate, balance that must be maintained, so that the purpose of this simulated environment holds true.
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VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
Surely this is a good answer. (I just realized I have been spelling "surely" wrong for my entire life.)
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VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
Sure. That is how I see it.
Well if there is fire in heaven, or in the spirit realm, then it is real fire. The fire here in the physical realm only resembles the real spirit fire in some way....maybe?
The same might also be true with water. The Bible talks a lot about water. About the water on earth and the rain cycle and so on. But it also mentions there is water in Heaven. In the real Heaven -not just the in the sky.
No?
Just don't call me Shirley.
VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
Evidently I typed out s-u-r-l-y one day, years ago and just went with it. Well, I guess you learn something new everyday.
VladtheDestroyer
Well-known member
As promised, I have been thinking about your post. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I still think it makes more sense if we take Paul literally here. Let me try to explain why:
We must give God the final say in who is dead and who isn't. Afterall He is the one who made us alive. In Gen 2:17 God told Adam that if he ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil "In that day you shall surely die".
Atheists say "See, God is a liar. Adam didn't die on that day -he was still talking and walking around"
Christians typically counter that, arguing something like "Well on that day he died a symbolic death and then he died the real death later"
But maybe we are getting this sorta backwards. I think what happened is that when Adam ate from the tree, a part of his spirit became attached to the flesh. To the physical realm. Dead to God because Adam will now use this new attachment to sin.
Jesus, having the keys to death, can unlock that part of us. He can detach that part of our spirit from the flesh so that it is with Him. And He does! But it takes our physical brains a while to get used to it. So there is a developmental process involved. Like a new-born baby learning how to walk and talk. We don't all necessarily notice it immediately (like Paul did?). It is a different death. The opposite of Adams, who knew immediately he was naked.
Wouldn't that make sense? Paul wasn't just advising that "If we pretend we are dead, it will help make us better Christians." -who of us actually does that?
Likewise I do not think Paul is using symbolism here:
Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
Symbolism was for the Jews and not for Christians. No? Why would Christ fulfill symbolism just to replace it with more symbolism? Christ is the real deal. There is no symbolism. So I think Paul is being literal here. That we have died a real death when Jesus cut off part of our spirit from the body.
Paul continues:
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ.
Christ is the real deal. He is not a shadow of things to come. What Paul says about Him must be taken literally. He is not speaking of a symbolic circumcision nor a symbolic death or baptism. Christ gives us the real circumcision and the real baptism.
See what I mean?
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