Is The Physical Realm Analogous To A Simulated Reality?

[Right Divider]

I would point out, that this specific verse doesn't even mention the spirit, it mentions the flesh.

"Without hands" makes it crystal clear that he is not talking about the physical.

Yet we both agree that it at least has something to do with the spirit. That's what we mean by spiritual, right?

Things of the spirit are spiritual... yes.

Would you agree with me, that when something spiritual happens to us, it means something happened to our spirit?

Not necessarily "to our spirit".

Because spiritual doesn't mean "not real"

I've never made such a claim. I don't know why you would mention it.

When something spiritual happens to us, it means something real has happened to our spirit.

Not necessarily "to our spirit".

So, what was the real thing that actually happened to our spirit when we became saved, that involves:

1. The Flesh
2. Circumcision
3. And the spirit

To me it seems, the answer is clear as day.

The context determines the meaning of terms. "Flesh" often refers to our sinful nature and not necessarily our body.

In Col 2:11, Paul makes it clear that he was not talking about a physical circumcision. He is using circumcision as figure of speech.

I think most Christians today would say something like "Well Paul is just saying that when Christians stop committing the sins they used to commit , it's like the same thing as getting circumcised."

What I am saying is, that may be close to what Paul is saying here. But not quite exact. What Paul is saying is that, when we became saved, Jesus circumcised our spirit from our flesh.

Paul never says anything like "Jesus circumcised our spirit from our flesh". I simply don't see how you can come to that conclusion from any of Paul's writings.

But again, spiritual does not mean "not real".

Nobody made that claim, so please stop making that accusation.

With that in mind, I don't see how this verse conflicts with something I said. Not at the moment anyway.

How, exactly, does scripture describe "Part of my spirit has already left my body when I was saved."?

How is the spirit divisible at all?

 

[Right Divider]

I think by basically just taking Paul literally.

You cannot take figures of speech in that sort of a literal fashion.

The RCC does that with John 3 and it causes a great deal of confusion.

I am not an expert on Paul, so I don't actually know how I would do anything but that.

You do it by following the figure(s) (of speech).

"...in putting off the body of sins..."

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

In Col 1:11, Paul makes it clear that he was not talking about a physical circumcision.

Paul would say that circumcision the Jews used to practice was "a shadow of things to come"

What was the thing that came?

 

[Right Divider]

Paul would say that circumcision the Jews used to practice was "a shadow of things to come"

Paul was differentiating between Israel and the body of Christ in Col 2:17.

What was the thing that came?

They have not come yet.

All of those "shadows" will be realized for Israel in the kingdom... when it comes.

Perhaps you do not know how to rightly divide between prophecy and mystery, between Israel and the body of Christ. That might be a large part of your problem understanding Paul.

 

[Right Divider]

In Colossians 2:11, the Apostle Paul uses a metaphor—specifically a metaphor of circumcision—to describe the spiritual reality of a believer’s identification with Christ.
The verse states: "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ."

Context and Meaning​

Paul employs this imagery to contrast the physical, external rite practiced under the Mosaic Law with a spiritual, internal transformation.

• The Comparison: He compares the physical removal of flesh (circumcision) to the spiritual "putting off" of the entire old nature (the "body of the sins of the flesh").
• The Distinction: By explicitly calling it a "circumcision made without hands," Paul emphasizes that this is a work performed by God, not by human religious effort. It is the result of the believer’s identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In this passage, Paul teaches that this spiritual circumcision is not a ritual performed on a specific part of the body, but a total removal of the power of the old sinful nature over the believer. It represents the complete cutting away of the old man’s standing before God, making the believer complete in Christ.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

They have not come yet.

All of those "shadows" will be realized in reality for Israel in the kingdom... when it comes.

I will probably have to think about that for a long time.

Thank you for your time in this matter!!

 

[Right Divider]

I will probably have to think about that for a long time.

Thank you for your time in this matter!!

You're welcome.

 

[Right Divider]

They have not come yet.

All of those "shadows" will be realized in reality for Israel in the kingdom... when it comes.

To be more exact... those shadows are related to the nation of Israel. Some actually refer to events during the great tribulation and not just in the kingdom itself.