Doormat
New member
A timeless existence is one not only without end but also without beginning. An example is Christ, without beginning or end (Heb 7:3). Do you agree?
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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A timeless existence is one not only without end but also without beginning. An example is Christ, without beginning or end (Heb 7:3). Do you agree?
StanJ53
New member
Sorry I just saw Matt Slick and gave you the link.
Atemporal: independent of or unaffected by time : timeless
If FOREVER was used within the description of Hell, which it isn't, then it wouldn't be. But Hell is NOT eternal and it is not atemporal, as it is thrown into the lake of fire in Rev 20.
I suppose no one will respond now.:dunce:
Aimiel
Well-known member
I do not. I believe that God, Alone, is Eternal. We are given eternal life, by The Lord because of His Blood. We have not always been. He is. Always has been. Always will be. He isn't effected by time. He is the same: yesterday, today and forever. He is God. We are granted eternal life in Him, but entering into the spirit realm will bring us out from under time, but will not bring us up to His level. He sits upon time, time doesn't wear upon Him. He isn't subject to time. He doesn't subscribe to newspapers to see what has happened. He knows the end from the beginning. To Him, time is a bubble, a moment, a second and no more. We will no longer be subject to time when we are in glorified bodies, but we will have had a beginning, having been created.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Hell is a spirit, as is Death, as they are seen by John riding the same horse or at least Hell following close behind the 'pale' horse:
Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Koine, not Kione...
The grammar is parallel and supports punishment and life that is everlasting, without end (heaven/hell, not annihilation).
Slick is Calvinistic, from CARM (google it)...counter=cult ministry....has some good things, but also some wrong ideas.
Personal beings are not timeless. They experience endless duration which allows them to think, act, feel. Atemporality is not biblical nor logical in relation to personal beings. It might make sense with math and numbers, though. Sequence, succession, duration=time is not a limitation on an eternal or everlasting being.
An eternal existence, God alone, is without beginning and end. This does not mean He is timeless, but experiences endless time without beginning/end.
Man is an evelasting being with a beginning, but with no end, by God's creative design (hence the need for two destinies).
Hell is a place, not a spirit. Hell/Death in this case is used figuratively (personified, etc.).
Aimiel
Well-known member
The book is called, "Revelation," for a reason: Jesus was revealing Truth to us. The spirit of Death and the spirit of Hell were seen riding. Yes, death is a verb and yes, hell is a place; but they are also spirits, just as Control is a spirit and powers, principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world are spirits. Those who ignore spiritual truth don't know what they stumble over. Paul said he didn't want us to be ignorant of Satan, but many people are, to this day.
Sorry, but he beyond time, and is timeless.
Man is not everlasting; he would have an end in death if it weren't for God help. Everything dies; a suchthing is why evolution is false.
But I don't need to believe there be a trinity to believe that.
Aimiel
Well-known member
I don't think trinity theory is Scriptural. You don't hear of anyone calling upon the Septune God, do you?
Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Zeke
Well-known member
Yea we should torture people on death row instead of killing them, Christians should have the sounds of that torture piped into their churches and homes day and night, a little karmic reaping and sowing would stop this insanity real quick.
Not so...
Hell is not a medieval torture chamber, but a place of separation/selfishness away from the saints in heaven and on earth.
*
I meet people who cannot bear even the name of Jesus, some become violently angry. These will not share eternity with Him unless they repent.