Is Enyart worshipped like Jesus

[Johnny]

I'm talking about criminal justice not religious ritual. I'm talking about what the law of the land should be not whether we should be Jews. What planet are you on?

The same one you are on Clete. So do you profess to abide by and agree with all of the Jewish Old Testament civil law?

If you had read it you would know already. I'm not here to give you a Bible lesson. You claim to be a Christian and so should now this stuff already or else should keep your mouth shut about things which you know nothing about.

That's because it's not there, Clete. It's OK, you can admit it.

No you don't, or else this conversation would not be possible. You might read Bible studies or selected verses but I'd wager you've not even tried to read the Bible to find out what it is actually saying. You wouldn't like it if you did judging by your position on this thread. You are almost certainly the typical sort of Bible reader who is more interested in what his pastor thinks the Bible is saying or what a favorite author thinks about what the Bible plainly says.

You take an interesting position Clete, typical almost. Anyone who disagrees with you clearly "doesn't read the Bible". My favorite quote of that rant was "You are almost certainly the typical sort of Bible reader who is more interested in what his pastor thinks.." Irony is so cruel, isn't it Clete?

Isn't that what you got all over me about earlier? "You do not know me. Do not pretend to know something you do not." Why then are you justified to do the same?

You don't see it because you don't know what justice is. You think God isn't concerned with the details but I assure you He is. There's more to the way God deals with mankind than simply the distinction between saved and unsaved.

I know what justice is, but I don't try fit God in my box of "what justice is".

It makes no difference. We are not commanded to use only the verbiage that is found in the Bible. We are to tell the truth, period.

Changed your tune, Johnny Piper? You originally said, "God is smarter than you are and He can be trusted, I recommend that you start doing just that and stop worrying about whether or not some pervert is going to be offended by the truth of God's word."

Further, Clete, as I have discussed with another: the manner in which you tell the truth can be loving or unloving.

Demonstrate what, that you water down the gospel? You just did it by asking this question! The gospel is at its core an insult to your character! People do not get saved until they understand that they are lost. If you are not telling people that if they do not repent and believe that they will go to Hell forever then you are not telling them the gospel.

The gospel is the good news. We're all going to hell without it. Regardless of your approach, I didn't see insulting someone included in the gospel anywhere.

1. We should aggressively push for the recriminalization of being a homo.

Just like Jesus, right?

2. We should attach and attempt to spread as much as possible a strong social stigma against being a homo.

Just like Jesus, right?

3. We should make every effort to cause individual homos to repent. (Which is impossible to do without telling them that there is something wrong with them, by the way).

Truely, but I don't think calling them names is the most effective way to do this. I promise you a good old-fashioned tongue lashing just isn't as effective.

Telling a pervert that he is disgusting in such a way to really effectively communicate the emotion is the kindest thing you could possibly do for a homo aside from prosecuting him executing him.

What about telling him he's a sinner and He needs Jesus. More loving than that?

This passage is not talking about how to deal with perverts, rapists and murderers.

I don't know Clete, all is a pretty big word.

Now, I'm through discussing this with you.

I'm suprised you lasted this long. Usually your type tires and reverts to name calling within a few pages of dissent.

I just wish I could get you to stop calling yourself a Christian. You don't know what the word even means.

You do not know God, you do not know Jesus Christ, you are not a practicing Christian and you don't know the very first thing about the gospel and so I doubt very much that you are even saved.

Well, it was a good run Clete. Too bad you cracked, there was still some good discussion to be had.

 

[Jefferson]

Is a heterosexual fornicator any better than a homosexual?

Yes. The Bible does not call for the execution of heterosexual fornicators. Rather it calls for heterosexual fornicators to get married.

Is a liar any better off without Jesus than a rapist? No. They all need him.

They both need Him and the rapist should be given the extra blessing of meeting Him sooner via a swift execution after a speedy trial.

Homosexuals need Jesus. Child molesters need Jesus. Liars need Jesus. Cheaters need Jesus. Our righteousness is like a filthy rag.

Jesus was nailed to a piece of wood for child-molesters, homosexuals, and rapists.[/QUOTE]But some sins are worse than others.

 

[Poly]

Yes. The Bible does not call for the execution of heterosexual fornicators. Rather it calls for heterosexual fornicators to get married.

They both need Him and the rapist should be given the extra blessing of meeting Him sooner via a swift execution after a speedy trial.



Jesus was nailed to a piece of wood for child-molesters, homosexuals, and rapists. But some sins are worse than others.

POTD

 

[taoist]

Post by Taoist deleted for being off topic.

 

[Delmar]

That's a good way to look at it.

The question of this thread, to that I answer "No." I don't think Enyart is worshipped like Jesus. But I think he's idolized sometimes, or some people here give the appearance of idolizing Enyart. And they act like the man can do no wrong. That's a problem. No other theologian has near the following that Enyart has. That's alarming.

I guaranty that there are people at Denver Bible Church and most likely people at TOL who have withstood him to his face, when he was to be blamed

 

[Delmar]

God did not command the death penalty for liars (okay well some perjurers but you get my point). Homos, child molesters and rapists (quite a threesome you picked there) are not simply sinners, they are criminals and deserve to be executed. God is the one who said this, not Bob Enyart or me or Rimi or anyone else. Anyone who thinks that Homos and rapist should die are simply thinking God's thoughts after Him.

So if God said such a thing, don't you think that, as a Christian, you might want to come down on His side of this issue or do you think that you are more merciful than God? Do you think you love the homo and those around him more than God does? I don't. I don't think so at all. I do think that you are much nicer than God is and I think you haven't given this one dime's worth of thought and couldn't care less about the consequences of what you advocate.

You talk about love with your lips but then advocate that which would destroy both the perverts you are defending and the nation in which they are allowed to exist. That's not love that's selfishness, that's apathy. You're more interested in being liked than you are about standing up for what it right and risking the consequences.

God is smarter than you are and He can be trusted, I recommend that you start doing just that and stop worrying about whether or not some pervert is going to be offended by the truth of God's word. No one here is advocating being offensive for the sake of being offensive. What I (and Bob Enyart as well) try to do and to teach others to do is to tell the truth. And if it the truth hurts? Good! That means you were doing something contrary to the truth. What Christians need to learn to do is to let the offense of the truth do its ministry and to stop weakening it by being so scared that we are going to offend someone right into Hell. As it is, most Christians are holding people's hand and very nicely walking them into Hell. Well, at least they liked you for the six months they knew you just before they started burning forever. Way to go! That really worked well! What you should have done was tackled them, blind sided them if necessary, knocked them clean off their feet, whatever it took to stop them on their journey toward condemnation up to and including the lawful execution of such criminals as homos, child molesters, rapists and the like.

Resting in Him,
:Clete:

Clete always has a way of saying things so that I can understand them.

 

[taoist]

Post by Taoist deleted for being off topic.

What was the expression I saw earlier today ... oh yes, "Stalin's airbrush" ... come on, Jefferson, it wasn't deleted for being off topic, it was deleted because you found a true statement about justice offered in the bible offensive to your conscience. The statement itself was entirely germane to your suggestion that the bible deals with fornicators justly. No, I won't offend you again by restating it. I'm doing my best to thread the needle here between engaging in discussion with a thread participant and avoiding discussion of moderating principles, but this one suffers from the usual complaint. Had the post been off topic, leaving it in situ would allow others to determine the fact.

 

[Yorzhik]

Wow, leave for a few days and look what happens.

 

[Yorzhik]

Originally posted by Yorzhik
Insulting someone the short form of telling them they are wrong.

Originally posted by Johnny
Ok then, we agree that the way you say something is important. Love is kind.

And you would also agree that insulting someone is the short form of telling someone they are wrong,, correct?

Originally posted by Johnny
But when I mentioned that insulting someone could drive them further from Christ, you defended with "It's better than being luke-warm". Yet, if you've driven them away from salvation, then what's the point? Not sure how disciplining your children is analagous to anything.

Ok. You don't understand the disciplining part. Let me give you a hint: disciplining is not nice.

Let's leave it at this; if an insult does not produce repentance, then driving their actions and attitudes away from Christ is what Jesus would prefer. An insult will produce one or the other, either repentance, or rejection. You seem to fail to realize that it can also produce repentance. But if it doesn't produce repentance then Jesus gets the second best result, and that is a greater rejection of Himself.

Originally posted by Yorzhik
Because Jesus is better, we are unable?

Originally posted by Johnny
Pretty much.

Then it wouldn't matter how we said something. Pointing out anyone's faults in any way would be outside of our ability.

You realize you cannot tell me, or even infer, that what I just said was wrong.

That's why saying, "Because Jesus is better, we are unable. " is useless thinking.

Originally posted by Johnny
Perhaps, but with caution.

Great, I always use caution when insulting someone.

Originally posted by Johnny
I don't know what lesser condemnation entails, but it is important to keep in mind who is doing the condeming.

If you don't know, then why do you discount insults? Trust me, lesser condemnation includes insults.

Originally posted by Yorzhik
If your enemy is a human, does that mean your enemy is your neighbor?

Originally posted by Johnny
The distinction is unnecessary, because we are commanded to treat them both with love.

I do treat both with love, but I don't treat them the same. Enemies get warnings, neighbors get nice treatment.

Originally posted by Johnny
Yes, but you completely avoided the conclusion my statement was intended to draw. Sometimes we are not to be literally "Christ-like".

"Yes, but no", that's a great way to try and live your life. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Johnny
I'm saying that Christ and Christians have different roles, and we should be careful we don't confuse ourselves with Christ Himself. Just because He did something doesn't mean it's OK for us to do it.

What you are saying is very confusing. We can insult as long as it isn't one-word insults, unless those one-word insults appear in the bible, but then only under certain circumstances that we may or may not have the ability to discern.

 

[temple2006]

Quote:
Let's leave it at this; if an insult does not produce repentance, then driving their actions and attitudes away from Christ is what Jesus would prefer.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Delmar]

Quote:
Let's leave it at this; if an insult does not produce repentance, then driving their actions and attitudes away from Christ is what Jesus would prefer.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!

Some people don't realize they are dirty untill they are covered with it!

 

[Poly]

:
Let's leave it at this; if an insult does not produce repentance, then driving their actions and attitudes away from Christ is what Jesus would prefer.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!

God wants people to be either hot or cold. He hates lukewarm. If one refuses to repent and wants to remain wicked, God wants their wickedness to be as evident as it can be. There should be no questioning whether or not a person is wicked. And if so they should be publically rebuked, leading to shame so that they will repent and if they don't it should still be done so that others may fear.

 

[temple2006]

Poly....Not my Jesus.

 

[Poly]

Poly....Not my Jesus.

Of course not.

 

[Grutch]

I've been looking through this topic late. There's a lot to read but I'll chime in. No I don't worship Bob Enyart as Jesus, nor do I hold him up as a saintly beacon of light to follow around, but coming from the hedonistic spiritual wasteland of Los Angeles I pray for more pastors like him.

I'm surrounded by churches lead by timid pastors who are more afraid of the benches emptying out, than they are of God. Since my prayers for a teleportation device or a high speed vehicle that could get me to Denver in an hour without breaking the bank go unanswered, I've reserved myself to listening to his radio show, bible studies and praying for somebody like Bob to head up a church here in LA.

Three Cheers for Bob!

-Grutch

 

[ebenz47037]

I've been looking through this topic late. There's a lot to read but I'll chime in. No I don't worship Bob Enyart as Jesus, nor do I hold him up as a saintly beacon of light to follow around, but coming from the hedonistic spiritual wasteland of Los Angeles I pray for more pastors like him.

I'm surrounded by churches lead by timid pastors who are more afraid of the benches emptying out, than they are of God. Since my prayers for a teleportation device or a high speed vehicle that could get me to Denver in an hour without breaking the bank go unanswered, I've reserved myself to listening to his radio show, bible studies and praying for somebody like Bob to head up a church here in LA.

Three Cheers for Bob!

-Grutch

Although I am not an open theist, I agree wholeheartedly with you, Grutch! :BRAVO:

 

[Yorzhik]

Quote:
Let's leave it at this; if an insult does not produce repentance, then driving their actions and attitudes away from Christ is what Jesus would prefer.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!

You're yelling at me t2k... it makes me feel bad. It certainly isn't very loving of you.

 

[Delmar]

You're yelling at me t2k... it makes me feel bad. It certainly isn't very loving of you.

I feel for you brother.

 

[Yorzhik]

Thanks Delmar. I was really feeling alone for a while there.

 

[temple2006]

I was not yelling any insults, now was I? What about you and DD sarcastic remarks?