Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
B57's god set the fire and wants worship for pushing you into the swimming pool that you had no way of even knowing was there.
Worse than that, he has no way of knowing whether he's one of the swimmers. For all he knows, his god has predestined him to believe a lie.
You're wasting your time attempting to debate him or even to get him to think at all. He's not at all interested in, nor does he care about what you or anyone else thinks.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I think Robert may be a lone wolf.
No, I am just one of the few that have found it, Matthew 7:13,14.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Grace is the BIG TENT, Robert. One only need believe to receive.
It's a GIFT you cannot earn. So don't try to boast about what is freely given.
B57 shares scripture. Perhaps your god is mute.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Not to intrude too far in this thread and its firestorm of ad hominem, but at what point to we consider someone as being or not being a Brother or Sister in regards to layers of doctrine?
I’m more about judging the things than hearts, but I also refuse to judge many as saved. I simply withhold judgment. Most want, yeah demand, to be judged as saved, even when they have imbibed and espouse many areas of false doctrine.
It’s certainly hard for me to look at an adamant and hatefully condescending Arminian, MADist, Open Theist, etc. and consider them to be a Brother or Sister; especially when they certainly don’t consider me to be their spiritual sibling (or even within the faith).
I’d surely like to have a balanced and loving interaction, but it’s nearly impossible on this particular forum amongst the most prolific contingent of members (and Admin/s).
After the way you and others of John W's smear club treated GM I don't think that you are under it.
It is very obvious to me that all that claim to be Christian are not Christians.
John said, "Try the Spirits to see if they be of God" 1 John 4:1.
I see more of the spirit of Satan on this Forum than I do of God.
Rosenritter
New member
John 15:12-14 KJV
(12) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
(13) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
(14) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
It seems to me that the friend of God would also embrace His other friends.
Word-for-word spam from this child of the devil, admitted Calvinist/Catholic fruit inspector,who asserts that keeping the law, including water baptism, observing the feasts,.................is necessary for justification, that he spams to everyone that disagrees with his made up satanic "doctrine," his made up biblical words/phrases.
Get out of out territory, wolfie.
Admitted closet Calvinist/Catholic fruit inspector.
I have inspected your fruit and what I found was sour grapes.
You talk like a Catholic/Calvinist, you wicked fruit inspector-they talk like you.
Tell us, sloppy Pate-how much fruit is required, to be saved? Let me guess, perverter of the gospel of Christ-as much as you produce, right,self righteous one, who rejects, on record, the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel of Christ, as the sole solution to the sins problem.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Oh, I agree. It’s just that I know what the extensive lexicography and grammar are for those key terms in those passages, and it makes it even more difficult to determine who is and isn’t an authentic spiritual sibling.
Starting at the outer perimeter, are JWs or Modalists or Arians authentic Brothers and Sisters in Christ? What about Nestorians or Pelagians? Pneumatomachians? Adoptionists? Those with any degree of false Christology or aberrant atonement doctrine? Extreme Kenoticists or Docetists? Universalists? Who/What? Hypernomians? Antinomians?
Do we just take everyone at their word by general declaration? Certain specific declarations? Works and demeanor? Theological and/or linguistic acumen or lack thereof?
The criteria is vague regarding the many modern splinters of so many areas of doctrine.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Of course, your first statement is generally true; and likely on a large scale overall.
But as much as I abhor the hermeneutics of Dispensationalism and other questionable doctrine/s, I do know what they are attempting to convey and I don’t automatically discount them as unbelievers (even if their demeanor of words and actions aren’t very appealing or are downright hypocritical and nearly blasphemous).
And your last statement would be more about the human condition in general, even amongst the redeemed. And I prefer to judge things rather than hearts, since I’ve been commanded to do the former and must leave the latter in the hands of Him who has been given to be the Judge of all mankind... the Son.
1.Who taught you that we are not to judge another's salvation, according to their testimony? Certainly not the scriptures, as it is replete with such judgments. Paul judged others' salvation, those, who testimony, contradicted, opposed the scripture's testimony. One, of numerous examples:
Romans 10 KJV
1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
_____________________
1 Corinthians 2:15 KJV But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
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2. Tell me-are you judging, that judging is wrong?
Christians loose their mind on this "do not judge" made up "doctrine," apparently viewing this "non judgmental approach" as oh so caring, sweet, "nice," and all that jazz, not wanting to "hurt someone's feelings," not wanting to offend anyone(it is called being a "man pleaser"); all the while, by not judging, assigning others, and many in the audience, to a trip to hell, by being "nice, sweet" Christian folk.
I know, I know....Boo!!!! Hiss!!!!!! You mean spirited, "judgmental" bully, John W..........We will pray for you, as you do not reflect the "sweet spirit" of Christ,the lowly Galilean fisherman, who, obviously, like Paul, John the B., Peter, never judged anyone!!!!!!
Hmmphhh!
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
If you’ll notice, I said “I PREFER to judge things rather than hearts.” In no way did I say that we are not to judge. Quite the contrary. Paul (the Apostle to the Gentiles) instructed the Romans (and thus us, vicariously) to judge all things and to judge righteous judgment. He also provided a prayer example for the Philippians (again, to us vicariously) that love abounds in knowledge and all judgement.
I’m the last one who would say we are not to judge. And I’m quite familiar with the examples in Paul’s epistles that indeed judge groups of individuals (though we are neither Apostles nor have the freedom to interpret his judgment as us non-Apostles should do in the same manner). And we are also to judge nothing before the day.
It helps to know what the Greek words actually mean, but that gets lost on the KJV-only crowd that demands English is the final authority for whatever reason.
So I agree with you that we ARE to judge. There are simply boundaries and guidelines for who and what and how we are to judge.
But this seems awfully hypocritical when you and other MADists decry “fruit inspection”, but then insist everyone is to judge. The frustration is that you surf the waves of double standards, playing the ends against the middle; and then insist others are doing that or something else. It’s like nailing Jell-O to the wall with you guys, sorta like attempting to converse with Freelight on his jacked-up threads.
This is really much more of an echo chamber for a relative few MADists to rail on everyone else without being effective at all in “keeping them from hell”. You guys just cajole and demean and berate virtually everyone else, while proof-texting a handful of verses.
So... How is it that you judge me? A Brother in Christ or no?
I affirm that Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, and that His Gospel is the one true Gospel for this age.
I affirm that man is saved by grace and faith alone by the Gospel of Paul, as simply stated in 1Cor 15.
I affirm that there are no works of man, before or after salvation, that will save any man; nor that any works forfeit one’s salvation.
I affirm the death, burial, resurrection, appearing, ascension, and seating of our Lord who is divinity and humanity as the eternal Logos and Son of the one true and living God who sent His Holy Spirit of promise to indwell those are of the faith.
I affirm an authentic heaven and hell, both here and in the life to come; respectively for those who are redeemed and those who are not.
There is much more that I affirm and could/would give answer to if there are questions for clarification.
Lastly, how and by what criteria would you insist that I judge you in this regard according to salvation?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Rosenritter
New member
William Tyndale for consideration:
"And again, a good man might err in many things, and not be damned; so that his error were not directly against the promises that are in Christ’s blood, neither that he held them maliciously ... and though all be false, yet should I not be damned, so long as I had no obstinacy therein: for the faith that I have in Christ’s blood should swallow up that error, till I were better taught."
So when Jesus judges between the sheep and the goats at the end of the world (Matthew 25) which doctrinal stances does he use to divide them between the sheep to his right and the goats to his left?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Indeed that is one aspect of the prevailing question/s. What is/are the outer boundary/ies or perimeter? Is it an ecumenist or syncretist doctrinal free-for-all with no accountability whatsoever for even Christology?