Is Calvinism Wrong?

[glorydaz]

If the spirit of Christ is in you, let it show by the fruits of the spirit. Don't descend (or spiral down past) another's level.



Wow... no further comment.

Fruit of the Spirit....not fruits of the Spirit. There is an important difference.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

 

[Faither]

Actually, if you go back and re-read it is wrong in Strong's when you attempt to turn a dictionary into a lexicon.



Ignoring the odd "on the table bit," why should I bother if you cannot read my plain posts aright and continue to put words into my mouth? I have enough folks attempting to do the same without adding another to the mix. :AMR1:

AMR

You know you can't defend your understanding .
I'll put my understanding on the table to be tested by anyone . And just maybe , God will grant me a better understanding through someone .

But your understanding is built on a mistranslation . You know it , but for some reason , you can't accept it .

If I remember correctly , the last time we spoke you disappeared on me after I asked the same question of you .

What is your understanding of the Salvation process from the beginning ? The Father calls us , draws us , we then responded with pisteuo . In your understanding , explain the first act of pisteuo that starts the journey .

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

But your understanding is built on a mistranslation

I rarely entertain arguments that rest upon claims of mistranslations unless I am dealing with some JW or other cultist, or those that are universalists. Those folks are actually heretics, which accounts for their frequent "mistranslation" assertions. You see, that is the only way they can account for their views. Apparently everyone else got it wrong, but these select few think they are more endued by illumination than the rest of us. Beware the appeal of being in the minority on vital matters. It tickles one's itchy ears and vanities.

If I remember correctly , the last time we spoke you disappeared on me after I asked the same question of you

I doubt you recall correctly, given how often you have misread me up to now.

By the way, see:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ans-fatalism&p=5275762&viewfull=1#post5275762

I did not ever want to believe the Good News until God first granted me the capacity to believe it. Prior to that regenerative act of God, I only hated God with every breath I drew. My very indifference to God was the worst form of my hate. In my unbelief I possessed no capacity to choose rightly at all. Such is the state of all non-believers.

This explains the difference between me and my non-believing neighbor: God and only God did it. I have no idea why He chose me or others like me, other than His own volitional willing to set His preferences upon me and a great multitude of others for purposes known only to Him. And since God is the author and finisher of my faith, working in me to will and to do, I am greatly comforted to know that I will not be lost to Him.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

...

 

[Robert Pate]

I've told the history of how I came to the Gospel of the grace of God and placed on the road that leads to eternal life. I'd like to look at that story from two different perspectives: The Calvinist view and the 'Gospel of the grace of God' view. The year was 1962 and I was about 11 years old, my family (Mom, Dad, Sister, and myself) were moving from Bellflower, California to Garden Grove, California. We stopped off at a rather run-down Motel in Anaheim during a hot spell in the middle of summer. It must have been in the 90's or worse. We were only supplied with a small fan that mainly just pushed the hot air around the room, add to that, the infamous 'California Smog.'

On one of those 'days' I was so uncomfortable, I went to my Mom and asked a question of a Spiritual nature. I said: "Do you think we're going to Hell?" Not being a 'church-going family' she answered: "Probably." We spent about a week in that Motel and moved on to our new apartment in Garden Grove. We got settled in and my Sister befriended a neighbor girl whose Dad was an assistant Pastor at a Buena Park Non-Denominational, Christ-centered, Bible-believing (non-Charismatic) church. Through my Sister's new found friend, our two family's became friends. Their family shared the 'Gospel of the grace of God' (as Paul called it) with our family and we started to attend their church.

Eventually, my entire family became members of the Body of Christ through that, same shared Gospel. It all started with a question an 11-year-old asked his Mom in the heat of the day, in the summer of 1962. One might say, I was seeking and the Bible says in Matthew 7:8 "For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." The Calvinist would say that my family must have been chosen before the foundation of the world, and we were drawn to the knowledge of our faith. (Irresistible faith) Well, that's one perspective, however, I believe the Holy Spirit draws 'all of humanity' to Christ. In my case, it came from a fearful 11 years old's question about Hell.

I believe the Holy Spirit drew my entire family to salvation by, not only that question but placed us in a situation where we were given the ability to hear the Gospel and place our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.")

Thank you for your testimony. I always like to hear about how people become Christians. I think that about 80% of Christians come to know Christ as their savior when they are children. The Holy Spirit was dealing with you and calling you to come to Christ. You heard and believed and so did your family just like the Bible says, Romans 10:17.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

...

 

[Faither]

I rarely entertain arguments that rest upon claims of mistranslations unless I am dealing with some JW or other cultist, or those that are universalists. Those folks are actually heretics, which accounts for their frequent "mistranslation" assertions. You see, that is the only way they can account for their views. Apparently everyone else got it wrong, but these select few think they are more endued by illumination than the rest of us. Beware the appeal of being in the minority on vital matters. It tickles one's itchy ears and vanities.

I doubt you recall correctly, given how often you have misread me up to now.

By the way, see:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ans-fatalism&p=5275762&viewfull=1#post5275762

I did not ever want to believe the Good News until God first granted me the capacity to believe it. Prior to that regenerative act of God, I only hated God with every breath I drew. My very indifference to God was the worst form of my hate. In my unbelief I possessed no capacity to choose rightly at all. Such is the state of all non-believers.

This explains the difference between me and my non-believing neighbor: God and only God did it. I have no idea why He chose me or others like me, other than His own volitional willing to set His preferences upon me and a great multitude of others for purposes known only to Him. And since God is the author and finisher of my faith, working in me to will and to do, I am greatly comforted to know that I will not be lost to Him.

AMR

When God imposed His will on you without your consent , was it at this point you understand He sealed in you the Spirit of Christ ?

 

[Faither]

I rarely entertain arguments that rest upon claims of mistranslations unless I am dealing with some JW or other cultist, or those that are universalists. Those folks are actually heretics, which accounts for their frequent "mistranslation" assertions. You see, that is the only way they can account for their views. Apparently everyone else got it wrong, but these select few think they are more endued by illumination than the rest of us. Beware the appeal of being in the minority on vital matters. It tickles one's itchy ears and vanities.


I doubt you recall correctly, given how often you have misread me up to now.

By the way, see:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ans-fatalism&p=5275762&viewfull=1#post5275762

I did not ever want to believe the Good News until God first granted me the capacity to believe it. Prior to that regenerative act of God, I only hated God with every breath I drew. My very indifference to God was the worst form of my hate. In my unbelief I possessed no capacity to choose rightly at all. Such is the state of all non-believers.

This explains the difference between me and my non-believing neighbor: God and only God did it. I have no idea why He chose me or others like me, other than His own volitional willing to set His preferences upon me and a great multitude of others for purposes known only to Him. And since God is the author and finisher of my faith, working in me to will and to do, I am greatly comforted to know that I will not be lost to Him.

AMR

AMR , it doesn't bother me that I'm in a minority . In fact , I've never had anyone agree with the facts I'm presenting , much less the rest of the Salvation process I have yet to even talk about .

God tells us only a few will find the narrow path .
Christianity is 95% courage , 4 % tenacity , and 1% all the rest . Do you have the courage to test our Faith together ?

 

[john w]

"Trust follows truth" means that you do not extend trust to someone that is not first truthful. It was not intended to be especially profound.

Re: "You are making Mennosota look good by comparison... and that's not a compliment."



Mennosota has previously earned a reputation for being a troll, aggressive, and somewhat obnoxious. I sent you a private comment because I assumed that would be kinder than calling you out openly. Whatever his shortcomings in this manner you have managed to catch up or surpass with just a few posts. If the spirit of Christ is in you, let it show by the fruits of the spirit. Don't descend (or spiral down past) another's level.



Wow... no further comment.

Stuff your Oprah act, and your oh so alleged "sweet" "spirit of the lowly Galilean fisherman," nauseating, condescending " I assumed that would be kinder than calling you out openly. Whatever his shortcomings in this manner you have managed to catch up or surpass with just a few posts. If the spirit of Christ is in you, let it show by the fruits of the spirit. Don't descend (or spiral down past) another's level" sound byte. Seen it before, and I need no "coaching," admonition from you. You're not qualified.


Can you dig it? Good. Stay out of my way, as I'm not interested in your grade school act. Now, pull up your bunny shirt, and learn from the leaders on this site, such as myself.

 

[john w]

Faith is the practice of our belief, works are the fruits and outwards evidence of our faith. As the thawing of the winter brings forth green leaves, the green leaves are outwards fruits and evidence of the spring season.

A Mormon, a Catholic, some deluded Buddhist monk, on the streets of San Fran, an atheist, a JW, A Muslim,...........................can display "works...fruits..."

And?


Rhetorical q-another perverter of the gospel of Christ is outed.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

...

 

[Rosenritter]

A Mormon, a Catholic, some deluded Buddhist monk, on the streets of San Fran, an atheist, a JW, A Muslim,...........................can display "works...fruits..."

And?


Rhetorical q-another perverter of the gospel of Christ is outed.

That was actually a rephrase of William Tyndale.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

When God imposed His will on you without your consent , was it at this point you understand He sealed in you the Spirit of Christ ?

Not going to take the logical fallacy bait there, Faither.

God graciously granted me a renewed capacity of my will (Eze. 36:26), lost in the fall of Adam, to a semblance to that which was originally created in man before he fell in the Garden.

I am very blessed that He did so, for at that moment I was then able to choose what I was most inclined to choose. God did not do the believing for me.

We Calvinists are not like those folks who think our will is some Holy of Holies, preferring instead to grant God His right to rule as He sees fit to rule, for His glory alone.

AMR

 

[Rosenritter]

Stuff your Oprah act, and your oh so alleged "sweet" "spirit of the lowly Galilean fisherman," nauseating, condescending " I assumed that would be kinder than calling you out openly. Whatever his shortcomings in this manner you have managed to catch up or surpass with just a few posts. If the spirit of Christ is in you, let it show by the fruits of the spirit. Don't descend (or spiral down past) another's level" sound byte. Seen it before, and I need no "coaching," admonition from you. You're not qualified.

Can you dig it? Good. Stay out of my way, as I'm not interested in your grade school act. Now, pull up your bunny shirt, and learn from the leaders on this site, such as myself.

Luke 6:44-45 KJV
(44) For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
(45) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

I am not interested in playing that type of game with you. If you don't want to speak peaceably then you needn't respond to posts and questions that aren't directed to you anyways.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

AMR , it doesn't bother me that I'm in a minority . In fact , I've never had anyone agree with the facts I'm presenting , much less the rest of the Salvation process I have yet to even talk about .

God tells us only a few will find the narrow path.

It should bother you, especially when you clearly misunderstand your "narrow path" allusion:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Matthew-7-14&p=5052089&viewfull=1#post5052089

:AMR:

AMR

 

[Faither]

Not going to take the logical fallacy bait there, Faither.

God graciously granted me a renewed capacity of my will (Eze. 36:26), lost in the fall of Adam, to a semblance to that which was originally created in man before he fell in the Garden.

I am very blessed that He did so, for at that moment I was then able to choose what I was most inclined to choose. God did not do the believing for me.

We Calvinists are not like those folks who think our will is some Holy of Holies, preferring instead to grant God His right to rule as He sees fit to rule, for His glory alone.

AMR

Not sure what kind of bait your referring too .

I was just hoping you could show me a better understanding of Him and the Salvation journey.

And maybe , something I share might do the same for you . Had to ask .

 

[Faither]

Faither, From the looks of it, you're trying to be the number one 'Teacher' on TOL? Aren't you the one that followed the teachings of Dr. Gene Scott?

Teacher no ! More like a concerned citizen waving my hands to prevent people from driving off a cliff they can't see with their families in the car . And noting most everyone in tol has ignored the warning , my focus goes to the people who might come in tol and decide not to post for fear of being the target of abuse from people like you .
I'll take whatever hatred you need to send my way in order to warn them also .

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

...

 

[Faither]

It should bother you, especially when you clearly misunderstand your "narrow path" allusion:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Matthew-7-14&p=5052089&viewfull=1#post5052089

:AMR:

AMR

I guess I'll never know since you refuse to test our Faith and faithing together .

 

[Faither]

I rarely entertain arguments that rest upon claims of mistranslations unless I am dealing with some JW or other cultist, or those that are universalists. Those folks are actually heretics, which accounts for their frequent "mistranslation" assertions. You see, that is the only way they can account for their views. Apparently everyone else got it wrong, but these select few think they are more endued by illumination than the rest of us. Beware the appeal of being in the minority on vital matters. It tickles one's itchy ears and vanities.


I doubt you recall correctly, given how often you have misread me up to now.

By the way, see:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ans-fatalism&p=5275762&viewfull=1#post5275762

I did not ever want to believe the Good News until God first granted me the capacity to believe it. Prior to that regenerative act of God, I only hated God with every breath I drew. My very indifference to God was the worst form of my hate. In my unbelief I possessed no capacity to choose rightly at all. Such is the state of all non-believers.

This explains the difference between me and my non-believing neighbor: God and only God did it. I have no idea why He chose me or others like me, other than His own volitional willing to set His preferences upon me and a great multitude of others for purposes known only to Him. And since God is the author and finisher of my faith, working in me to will and to do, I am greatly comforted to know that I will not be lost to Him.

AMR

Just to prove to you I read you replies correctly , this statement stuck out to me the first time I read it .
You said , " and since God is the author and finisher of my faith .". The passage correctly used is " God is the author and finisher of Faith ." Not , my faith .

So it dawned on me , that if you truly understand God " fulfills pisteuo for you " , that would mean your not faithing on your own ( a surrendered life ) to put on the table to be tested .

I think the misrepresentation of someone is as close to evil as one can get . So I would never do that to you . I'm just attempting to make points to spark and interest in you .