Theology Club: I'm a heretic (probably...you tell me)
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
The gifts of God are by the Spirit of God, to those who are believers (those in whom the Spirit of God dwells). This discussion is about Spiritual Gifts.
musterion
Well-known member
I'm wondering what the advantage is in believing that.
atrol:
Like I said, it's just a speculation, but one that would explain a WHOLE lot about the historically sad condition of the Body of Christ if true.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm not so sure it's the body of Christ that is lacking, but the churches. It's why so many have gone outside the camp, and are meeting in private homes. A return to our roots, if you will.
musterion
Well-known member
Good point, I accept the correction.
musterion
Well-known member
I double checked the o.p., my meaning is quite clear. Wrong, maybe, but clear.
I've read your thread here, and you say you are MAD, but I'm unsure if this is about spiritual gifts ceasing or about when the dispensation of grace began.
musterion
Well-known member
It's just wondering aloud about ALL the gifts possibly ending...miraculous and ministerial alike...upon the completion of the revelation given to Paul. Might help explain the shift from pastors, etc, being a defined spiritual gift to "if ANY man DESIRES the office," he doesn't need to show he has the gift but, instead, has to meet certain requirements. Makes me wonder if a discontinuance of all the gifts would help explain the Church as a whole falling into retro-Judaized apostasy within 100 years of Paul's homegoing (which Paul foretold would happen no matter what, discontinued gifts or no).
But like I said all along...I dunno. Just wondering.
Are you saying that once Paul finished writing about spiritual gifts they ceased?
It is true obviously that Paul writes about spiritual gifts in His letters / writings.
Do you remember that heaven and earth will pass away but God's word will not? What if the gifts cease at that time instead of whenever you believe they did or may have ceased? You are being unclear.
I was differentiating between any gifts ceasing at Paul's conversion, after his writings were completed (and now maybe some at a particular point between writings), and the idea that some gifts may have ceased around 70 AD (others may have this view).
I personally believe that spiritual gifts are still for believers today.
musterion
Well-known member
Yes.
Yes.
Doesn't matter. I didn't say I was convinced they all DID cease (sign gifts, yes).
I know you do.
My thought was we can have a discussion about your view.
You believe the ministerial gifts, but not the sign gifts, are for today.
I think the gifts Paul spoke of where no different than what the Lord Jesus Christ stated in Matthew. Picking up deadly serpents, raise the dead, miracles, signs of the coming kingdom. It is obvious from Paul, the kingdom was still possible in his letters and he mentions it often.
I understand that you are not sure about something.
Is it that you are not sure about the ministerial gifts (as some of the gifts are called by some people) (being for today)?
You mention sign gifts here, and maybe we can have a thread about spiritual gifts.
I think you mean Mark, not Matthew.
I do not believe there is currently a metaphysical gift of any of them. However, I do believe God still calls people into ministry and helps them become equipped for it.
Matthew 10
5These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.