How I KNOW it is God's will to heal all who desire it

[serpentdove]

[Do saved people also get sick and die?] "...It is the good news of the kingdom of heaven. There will be no sickness or death or sorrow in that kingdom...Paul did not preach the wisdom of men like we do. He preached the cross with the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit."

:chz4brnz: Do saved people also get sick and die?

 

[Totton Linnet]

The quote you have which looks as though I said it is not mine.

Everyone prays when they are sick

 

[Totton Linnet]

:chz4brnz: Do saved people also get sick and die?

These are not my quotes, please make it plainer.

Do saved people sin? is it God's will?

 

[Right Divider]

And you should be clearing out the booze halls and the massage parlours, preaching to every creature. Don't you believe in salvation from sin? see how that works?

Such a typical tactic of someone that can't substantiate their original argument.

NO, I DON'T see how that works.

You need to stick with the TOPIC that YOU started.

Why can't you HEAL EVERYONE and RAISE THE DEAD?

Apparently your faith is weak or non-existent.

I am advocating that when the gospel IS preached, wherever it is preached, the FULL gospel ought to be preached.

"Behold all power in heaven and on earth is given unto Me, goye therefore and preach the good news to every creature. These signs will follow them that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, in My name they shall cast out devils......"

Paul raised only one person from the dead so far as we know, Peter only one.

Well that is ONE more than you. What's wrong with your faith?

That mean Paul was a charlatan?

Paul was not one of the ones that was given those instructions and NEITHER are you.

How can we know what gospel Paul preached, we have only a couple of half sermons preached by him. We can know by the assemblies he planted.

Oh ye of little faith. Read the THIRTEEN epistles that he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and are included in the BIBLE.

The body of Christ was not a mystical heavenly body when Paul planted it. It was a body with members which did function.

Indeed.... but he also said that those members are SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES.

There were gifts, gifts of healing and deliverance, gifts of prophecy, one had the gift of tongues another member the gift of interpretation one body with many members but each member had a spiritual function.

And yet by the end of Paul's ministry he was leaving his friends sick and giving advise to drink wine for stomach problems. Interesting.....

The church today is the body of Christ and it even functions with gifts such as word of knowledge/word of wisdom.

See the gifts of the Holy Spirit were exactly the same in nature as the ministry of Christ in His earthly body at Nazareth or Caperneum...again the gifts listed at Corinth in the body of Christ there were the same as the gifts shown in Jerusalem by Peter and the gang. What God did among the Jews He also did among the Gentiles.

It is the manifestation of Christ arisen from the dead and dwelling in His body the church.

You need to rightly divide. This is where your confusion comes from.

 

[musterion]

Good job, RD. Tot can't answer that whole raising the dead "gnat" so tried making it all about you instead. Sad that I'm losing more respect for Tot with every post Tot makes.

 

[Word based mystic]

Thus says the minimalists gospel that some preach.

do your tap dance to not be liable for walking in the scripture that says

All things are possible for those who believe.
these signs shall follow those who believe.
if ye ask anything according to his will and believe.
ye dont have because you dont ask

 

[musterion]

All things are possible for those who believe.
these signs shall follow those who believe.
if ye ask anything according to his will and believe.
ye dont have because you dont ask

Romans 8:26.

Square that circle for us, please.

 

[aikido7]

As a Christian I see God's will as disclosed in Jesus.

He used to say to a person healed in his presence "Your faith has healed you."

In Jesus' day faith was defined not so much as certainty or knowing.
As Jesus understood it, it referred to TRUST.

 

[Word based mystic]

lots of people set their faith for salvation on their knowledge.

yet they don't (comprehend)

Some people know (about) Jesus but don't (know) Jesus.

Some people set their doctrine but what they don't know or experience.

some verify the scriptures by walking in relationship and experience.

Which are you.

Knowledge puffs up.
Love has action that believes all things are possible for (those) who believe.

I will wait till I see Jesus face to face, then I will no longer pursue the spiritual gifs.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Such a typical tactic of someone that can't substantiate their original argument.

NO, I DON'T see how that works.

You need to stick with the TOPIC that YOU started.

Why can't you HEAL EVERYONE and RAISE THE DEAD?

Apparently your faith is weak or non-existent.


Well that is ONE more than you. What's wrong with your faith?


Paul was not one of the ones that was given those instructions and NEITHER are you.


Oh ye of little faith. Read the THIRTEEN epistles that he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and are included in the BIBLE.


Indeed.... but he also said that those members are SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES.


And yet by the end of Paul's ministry he was leaving his friends sick and giving advise to drink wine for stomach problems. Interesting.....


You need to rightly divide. This is where your confusion comes from.

What I said to you was spot on, it is the same principle. You think I ought to go and clear out the hospital with what I believe [even though Christ nor His apostles did]...why do YOU not clear out the vice dens with what you believe.

I just whacked the ball back at you...bad luck

How MANY folk did Paul raise from the dead in 20-30 years? or Peter? it is a irrelevant argument just as Trophimus and Timmy's tummy is irrelevant.

You are sayig what the Jews said to Christ at Nazareth..."what You did in Capernaum do here also" they did not like His reply either.

There are tens of THOUSANDS of people all over America who witness to you [should you care to do a little study] that they have been ill and the Lord healed them. I witness to you, I was ill and the Lord healed me.

Why on earth that makes you angry is beyond me.

You say Paul was not instructed I say he was, he planted assemblies all over Asia in which the people had ministries of healing and deliverance and miracles....that proves the gospel he preached.

Healing is part of the gospel, "Himself bare our sicknesses and carried our diseases" to be saved means to be made every whit whole.

And you are way off base.....you complain that you cannot see miracles at the same time as spouting unbelief.

Nothing is promised to unbelief...in fact God will make sure that you never do see a miracle.

And I am not confused...I have the experience, I have seen. You haven't but you think you know everything about it.

You argue the same as the man who is not born again...there is no such thing he says...well isn't he smart.

 

[Totton Linnet]

As a Christian I see God's will as disclosed in Jesus.

He used to say to a person healed in his presence "Your faith has healed you."

In Jesus' day faith was defined not so much as certainty or knowing.
As Jesus understood it, it referred to TRUST.

Yes Jesus IS the greatest revelation of God's will we will have this side of eternity.

You cannot discern God's will by looking at existing circumstances at any given time in history.

If you had walked into a church in the 14th century you would have seen and heard very little of the gospel. Yet the people believed they were in God's will. The only place to discern God' will is in the word of God and Jesus IS the word of God made flesh...He healed all who came in faith.

That is God's will.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I will catch up later...good night folks

 

[Lon]

you can't hold me responsible for what I do

Slaves can 'breath' freely, they do not have a freewill. They 'do' have an ability to choose.

 

[serpentdove]

[:chz4brnz: Do saved people also get sick and die?] "These are not my quotes..."

I quote you exactly (ellipses used to shorten your post).

[:chz4brnz: Do saved people also get sick and die?] "Do saved people sin? s it God's will?"

:chz4brnz: Do saved people (regenerated believers) also get sick and die? Eph 4:14

 

[Lon]

If He bore our sickness and carried our diseases then how come you are carrying them?

My sickness was sin, my disease was death. Are you not interested in loaves and fishes? Why do you care if I have a cold or not? Why do you care if I have cancer or not? Isn't flesh[ly]? I don't like being sick, but Romans 8 says creation is subjected to futility.

Paul explains what his thorn in the flesh was....I have already shown it. In the gospels nobody glorified God with their sickness, they glorified Him with their healing.

No need to hammer it over and over. We disagree.

Nowhere does Christ show it is dishonouring to Him to ask for healing...where do Christians get such ideas...He was DIShonoured by the people's lack of faith.

This confuses prayers with answers. Practically, we both pray for healing, and the healing of others. As a matter of fact, the answers to those prayers are exactly the same across board. You and I are rather arguing about interpretation of that data. I 'think' I'm seeing genuine results better than you.

How long is He to bear with this unbelieving and adulterous generation?

Pointed? :think: Did you mean to be this vilifying?

Jesus REPROVED them for not seeking Him for the meat which endureth to eternal life...He said "you seek Me because you ate bread"

Are you not seeing one of these is about being in Christ and the other is concerned with the flesh?

The bread perishes but the power that PRODUCED the bread is the meat which endureth unto eternal life. Get your eyes off the bread, set your eyes on the miracle which produced the bread.

:idunno: I might have said the same thing to you. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. Bread and healing feed the flesh, are interested in the flesh. I have nerve endings, so I am interested somewhat in my flesh, but I tend to pray about much more important matters. I do pray for flesh, in the sense that we have to function in it.

He said "You seek Me NOT because you saw miracles" it is a reproof, He said "you seek Me because ye ate bread"

The miracle is our spirit is no longer enslaved to sin and death. It is Spiritual. Flesh is a functionality, it is not me.

You are being wily aren't you? what do you mean you'd rather have Jesus?

Just that I "don't care if God says 'yes' or 'no'" regarding my healing. I have Him, it is enough. I don't like being sick, but as long as I have Him, it isn't of huge consequence to me. If I need to do something for His glory, I will pray and believe He will heal me.

Oh such spirituality overwhelms my soul.

How long is He to bear with this unbelieving and adulterous generation?

Which Jesus is that then? is there a Jesus in the gospels I haven't read about? who said "Go thy way and be sick, glorify Me by limping to church on crutches everyone will know how spiritual you are and I will be glorified" There I only one Christ in the bible

Deny outright that the Christ of the bible ALWAYS healed ALL the people when they believed on Him.

I know of no Christ nor any God who is not miraculous. The salvation of the cross is done by a miraculous transaction.

Incredibly marginalizing. I simply said a preoccupation with the flesh, is a mind interested in the flesh. Did you mean to push it beyond the idea that I think it is flesh-interested like seeking loaves and fishes? You need those too. I'm not saying don't pray, never suggested it. I'm saying sometimes God's answers are 'no.' It 'looks' like you are making this into an essential issue of salvation, and if I'm not of a Charismatic mindset, I'm going to hell, serving a different God and Jesus, etc. If that's not the case, I'd like to see you respond appropriately. I have always assumed such isn't the case between us or our assessments of each other, but these marginalizing sentiments are of concern.

YOU, you pray when you get sick or when a loved one gets sick, you rush to the doctors...you are just as mindful of the flesh as the charismatics. You scratch and scrape to build yourself a nice little nest egg too. Seems like you invest a great deal of your time on health and wealth.

I'm not preoccupied with either. My hopes are beyond the material. These others are a means to an end, incidental to the Christian life. They are anecdotes, support actors, behind-the-scenes concerns. Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. God is concerned with peripherals, but they are peripherals.

When Matthew 6 closes, it says these too will be added, 'as if' they are acknowledged as the opening act, the support peripheral, or the things that take a back seat to spiritual matters.

 

[intojoy]

Who has the gift of healin?

Silence...

 

[serpentdove]

...If He bore our sickness and carried our diseases then how come you are carrying them?

Paul explains what his thorn in the flesh was....I have already shown it. In the gospels nobody glorified God with their sickness, they glorified Him with their healing.

Nowhere does Christ show it is dishonouring to Him to ask for healing...where do Christians get such ideas...He was DIShonoured by the people's lack of faith.

People would get better if they had enough faith? :Shimei:

 

[aikido7]

Yes Jesus IS the greatest revelation of God's will we will have this side of eternity.

You cannot discern God's will by looking at existing circumstances at any given time in history.

If you had walked into a church in the 14th century you would have seen and heard very little of the gospel. Yet the people believed they were in God's will. The only place to discern God' will is in the word of God and Jesus IS the word of God made flesh...He healed all who came in faith.

That is God's will.

As humanity got more rational and the original oral culture got left behind, it was only the priestly class that could read and interpret God's will. Those in the pews were illiterate.

Martin Luther translated the Bible into the Vulgate--the language of the everyday German in the pews.

This gave the people more power over their leaders who wanted to force some biblical idea on them. Luther gave the common people a tongue to make joyful noise unto God.

From that time on, the gospel was preached hither and yon due to the invention of the Printing Press by Gutenberg.

Instead of many different voices saying different things at once, the message from the Bible spoke in one voice for all.

 

[aikido7]

Who has the gift of healin?

Silence...

WE DO!

["...your faith has healed you."]

 

[oatmeal]

Paul, through whom great miracles were wrought, left Trophimus sick at Miletus and told Timothy to take a little wine for his oft infirmities.

3 John 1:2 makes God's will perfectly clear.

But everyone does not achieve that always in all situations.

Yet it remains God's will

Those who believe receive to the extent and proportion that they believe